Smoking Venue And Hoster

[Musicman51]

If "Your" "private property" is open to the public. It is no longer private. Just because you own and run a bar, does not give you the right to pick and choose which laws you intend to keep. Under your theory, you can deny me the free equal use of your bar simply because i'm a hillbilly with bad spellen... lol You are again...by the "majority"..told, ordered, enforced to..keep noise at a minimum, not sell illegal drugs, allow prostatution, gamling etc. On your own "private" property. Unless of course the "Majority" say you are allowed to do so. So you are comparing apples to oranges here. I can expect to walk into your "Private" open to the public, licensed liquor establishment, and expect you to ensure my health, safety, and well being. If you choose not to because it is your own "private" open to the public for profit property. It won't be for long....

Dale...my brothers wife says his nasty disgusting football habit all winter is starting to git the best of her, and is taking a tole on her health. Under your therory. He has a "right" to his disgusting habit {according to his wife} as well. I will tell him, that he has the "right" to watch football at any bar and resturant in the area because he's a tax payer. And they best supply him with television sets. Or at the very least a seprate room away from his wife, and others who hate football to enjoy his nasty disgusting {according to his wife} addition.

[Musicman51]

Sorry for the double post. But i forgot to mention. That with michigan's anti get tough smoking laws. Starting next month. When you come to michigan for a visit, you better bring plenty of your favorite smokes with ya. Not only are we telling you where you can, and can't smoke. But we are also telling you what type of cigarrettes you can and can't smoke..yep. Starting jan 1st. This state will no longer sell regular cigarettes. We will only sell those that are "Self-extinguishing Cigarettes". Like the seat belt law, it's for a persons own protection. 1000's die each year in house fires caused by an unattended cigaro. Many of those killed never smoked, and through no fault of their own. Some who are complaining about their"rights" being violated should stop and think about the trmendious cost to others that smoking causes. lying in the hospital bed, assisted by breathing machines gasping for breath, running up a cost to the tax payers of around $3,000 a day. Like i said, i did it in my ummm...younger more foolish days. Now my only bad habit is karaoke......
http://www2.woodtv.com/dpp/health/La...s-some-smokers

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

Sorry for the double post. But i forgot to mention. That with michigan's anti get tough smoking laws. Starting next month. When you come to michigan for a visit, you better bring plenty of your favorite smokes with ya. Not only are we telling you where you can, and can't smoke. But we are also telling you what type of cigarrettes you can and can't smoke..yep. Starting jan 1st. This state will no longer sell regular cigarettes. We will only sell those that are "Self-extinguishing Cigarettes". Like the seat belt law, it's for a persons own protection. 1000's die each year in house fires caused by an unattended cigaro. Many of those killed never smoked, and through no fault of their own. Some who are complaining about their"rights" being violated should stop and think about the trmendious cost to others that smoking causes. lying in the hospital bed, assisted by breathing machines gasping for breath, running up a cost to the tax payers of around $3,000 a day. Like i said, i did it in my ummm...younger more foolish days. Now my only bad habit is karaoke......
http://www2.woodtv.com/dpp/health/La...s-some-smokers

I do feel sorry for your smokers. Texas went to those last year and I have nearly set the house on fire a few times. Yes they do go out when they hit one of those bands, but if you happen to catch it and not have to re-light, then it burns underneath the band and drops it off lit from the back end. If it happens to fall outside the ashtray then whatever it lands on may catch as well. I used to keep a paper towel under my ashtray to keep the table clean, but can't now for fear of it catching.

Dale...my brothers wife says his nasty disgusting football habit all winter is starting to git the best of her, and is taking a tole on her health. Under your therory. He has a "right" to his disgusting habit {according to his wife} as well. I will tell him, that he has the "right" to watch football at any bar and resturant in the area because he's a tax payer. And they best supply him with television sets. Or at the very least a seprate room away from his wife, and others who hate football to enjoy his nasty disgusting {according to his wife} addition.

Don't remind me....I have to go to my computer room to watch football and to smoke. We did decide to not smoke in the main part of the house when we bought this place for the sake of our extended family. I smoke in only one area at the back of the house and they only breathe in the other part of it.

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

If "Your" "private property" is open to the public. It is no longer private. Just because you own and run a bar, does not give you the right to pick and choose which laws you intend to keep. Under your theory, you can deny me the free equal use of your bar simply because i'm a hillbilly with bad spellen... lol

That is exactly my point. If I chose to, I could deny you access for any reason I so choose. It is not your God given right to be in my PRIVATE business. I have kicked people out simply because they are too stupid to be here. That is not a general hatred of stupid people, but driven by the market forces. If I allow this idiot to stay, how many good paying customers am I going to lose?

Originally Posted by Musicman51

You are again...by the "majority"..told, ordered, enforced to..keep noise at a minimum, not sell illegal drugs, allow prostatution, gamling etc.

The examples you give (other than the noise) are illegal anywhere, anytime. Not "magically" illegal when they walk in the door. Besides, I would not allow those things in the bar because of market pressure, not because it is illegal. I don't get fined if some prostitute is caught trying to pick up a John. I would kick her out because she is bothering my paying customers.

Originally Posted by Musicman51

I can expect to walk into your "Private" open to the public, licensed liquor establishment, and expect you to ensure my health, safety, and well being. If you choose not to because it is your own "private" open to the public for profit property. It won't be for long..

I don't run a daycare or nursing home. You assume a certain risk by being in the bar. As far as longevity, I have been doing this for the last 20 years. Don't think that people haven't tried to sue me, they have. But I have not lost a single case yet. If it were by my own doing that someone got hurt, I would feel morally responsible and be glad to do whatever needed to be done, but that hasn't happened yet. The only injuries that have occurred were either their own fault, or the fault of another.

Originally Posted by Musicman51

Dale...my brothers wife says his nasty disgusting football habit all winter is starting to git the best of her, and is taking a tole on her health. Under your therory. He has a "right" to his disgusting habit {according to his wife} as well. I will tell him, that he has the "right" to watch football at any bar and resturant in the area because he's a tax payer. And they best supply him with television sets. Or at the very least a seprate room away from his wife, and others who hate football to enjoy his nasty disgusting {according to his wife} addition.

They are called sports bars. They are there because of a market for them, not because it is some "Right" him, or his wife, has.

On the public safety front. I don't have bouncers. I always thought they cause more trouble than they are worth. Many bars do have them though. Do you think they have a bouncer there to protect you? Not hardly. The bouncer is there to protect the interest of the bar only.
Checking IDs to make sure the bar doesn't get fined.
Kicking out rowdy people to keep the good paying customers.
Keeping the perverts away from the pretty girls to ensure the good looking girls are there to attract the guys.
Stopping fights because it is hard to sell drinks when a fight is going on, and you don't want to alienate your good paying customers.
Keep people from destroying the bars property.

None of these duties are explicitly geared toward the customer's health and safety, they only overlap by coincidence.

On another front, I am only 1 week away from the due date of my first grandson. My wife and I are very excited. And no, I won't be smoking around him I'll leave that choice to him when he is old enough to chose whether or not he wants to be around that. I feel bad for the rest of you that won't be getting a grandson for Christmas, but don't hate me because I am

[ddouglass]

Mark, I don't hate you because you are getting a Grandson for Christmas, but because you are getting a Grandson. I have 4 Granddaughters and no Grandsons and have been told by my kids there will be no more.

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

Mark, I don't hate you because you are getting a Grandson for Christmas, but because you are getting a Grandson. I have 4 Granddaughters and no Grandsons and have been told by my kids there will be no more.

I had 2 wonderful daughters but I always had a hankerin' for a boy. Now I can at least teach somebody about woodworking, construction and mechanical aptitude. I lost hope for my son-in-law to learn anything useful

[bryant]

Originally Posted by marklwood

I had 2 wonderful daughters

Me too.

[JNS02]

Musicman51, I stand corrected. I found out (after my post) that you are correct, VFW etc etc are not exempt from this law. I myself quit smoking when the price of cigs went over $2. a pack, but I still feel that smokers should have the right to smoke at the bars and clubs. Just my opinion. Not trying to start a big debate on this issue. But you are right, our state doesn't want to lose that big tax dollar off every pack.

[marklwood]

Just let me be clear if I haven't explained it yet. I absolutely agree with everyone's right to not be subjected to second hand smoke in their own home or on public property. I don't want to force my poison on anyone. I wouldn't come to your house or your business and require you to allow me to smoke. I also believe that the taxpayers have every right to legislate behavior in places that are owned, or maintained by the public. I would even agree to a smoking ban on public roads. All I ask is that when it comes to my OWN property, I should be able to chose what goes on there. I don't think the government has any right whatsoever to regulate an otherwise legal behavior on my property, whether or not I allow the public to congregate there. My beef is not about smoking specifically. It is about the government taking away my right to choose how I use/abuse my own property.

[RandyMcCharles]

I'm not sure about the US. In Canada businesses have the right to deny service to anyone for any reason. The people, then, have to right to go after businesses for human rights violations if they feel they have a case. eg. If a bar says 'only white people allowed', they would lose a human rights lawsuit. If a men's club says 'only men allowed', chances are a lawsuit would fail. The recent question has come up about private smoking clubs. I am not aware of any in Canadian smoke-free districts. If it does happen, I am sure the question of how private is private will come up. eg. If you pay cover charge (membership) and smoke, you would prabably lose the argument that you are private. If you charged a large annual membership fee, you may be able to convince a court. It will be interesting to see if anyone has or will attempt this.

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by RandyMcCharles

I'm not sure about the US. In Canada businesses have the right to deny service to anyone for any reason. The people, then, have to right to go after businesses for human rights violations if they feel they have a case. eg. If a bar says 'only white people allowed', they would lose a human rights lawsuit.

Discrimination only applies to protected classes. Race, creed, religion, gender, etc. For instance, fat people are not a protected class, I could have a weight limit and not violate any discrimination laws. I could say no blond people, that is safe. I do, in fact, say no idiots. They too are not protected under US law.

[RandyMcCharles]

They are protected classes because past successful legal action resulted in case law. Private smoking clubs may require future challenges to establish case law, just as music downloads when they first appeared generated court battles resulting in case law.

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by RandyMcCharles

They are protected classes because past successful legal action resulted in case law. Private smoking clubs may require future challenges to establish case law, just as music downloads when they first appeared generated court battles resulting in case law.

You are absolutely correct. Not to open up yet another can of worms, but gay rights are a good example. They are by no means a majority, but were willing to stand up for their rights. If smokers would do the same, this wouldn't fly.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by marklwood

On another front, I am only 1 week away from the due date of my first grandson. My wife and I are very excited. And no, I won't be smoking around him I'll leave that choice to him when he is old enough to chose whether or not he wants to be around that. I feel bad for the rest of you that won't be getting a grandson for Christmas, but don't hate me because I am

Ahhh, we have that in common, as my grandson is coming tomorrow (daughter induced).

[bryant]

Originally Posted by bryant

Ahhh, we have that in common, as my grandson is coming tomorrow (daughter induced).

Grandson came on Tuesday, I'm at my daughter's house now.

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by bryant

Grandson came on Tuesday, I'm at my daughter's house now.

Congrats Bryant. Merry early Christmas to you. Now I'm going to have to pressure my daughter into not letting you be the only one on here to get a grandson for Christmas. Due date is Monday, God willing.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by marklwood

Congrats Bryant. Merry early Christmas to you. Now I'm going to have to pressure my daughter into not letting you be the only one on here to get a grandson for Christmas. Due date is Monday, God willing.

Thanx Pal.
Bryant