Smoking Venue And Hoster

[billyo]

do you live in so.fla ? or used to. and what part of so.fla

[muzicman144]

I live on the big lake, Big O.
Whenever smoking and smoker's rights are discussed. It's always about my "rights". I will agree 100% that anyone who chooses to smoke and can afford it, should be able to do so. But when you excercise your "right" in my presence, you take away any right i may have not to smell the smoke.
I fought for your rights, and, was a smoker until 96'. I am not one who condemns a smoker. They should just remember that when they excercise those rights, there may be someone beside you who fought to give you that right and you are not respecting that persons rights.
Off the soapbox, i play smoking and non'smoking venues and find the best crowds, most behaved crowds in the non smoking venues.
muzicman144

[billyo]

i do respects peoples right who don't smoke, and i dont smoke infront of people who dont smoke, i dont even smoke infront of my wife/daughter,and i dont even smoke in my vehicle,i started smoking in my 40's, and i regret it very much ( getting divorce at that time ) i kinda dis-agree with you bout the most behave people are non smokers, i play in a non smoker right now and i have a few that are the the most abnoxious people i've ever seen, they're non smokers and most of the time they will order a drink and sat there all night,waiting for their turn but my smoker people will order drinks as long as they still have packs of smokes in them..and they do go outside and smoke..but anyway pls. don't take it the wrong way, this is just my opinion and for the sake of conversation..

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by billyo

i kinda dis-agree with you bout the most behave people are non smokers, i play in a non smoker right now and i have a few that are the the most abnoxious people i've ever seen, they're non smokers and most of the time they will order a drink and sat there all night,waiting for their turn but my smoker people will order drinks as long as they still have packs of smokes in them..and they do go outside and smoke..but anyway pls. don't take it the wrong way, this is just my opinion and for the sake of conversation..

You are not just whistlin' Dixie.

I have been in the service business (rest/bar) for the last 30 years. One of those gigs was a 10 year stint as a manager for Red Lobster. As a corporation, General Mills restaurant division was concerned about the growing nonsmoking lobby even way back then. When I was in Orlando, for training they were mining data from the sales records over a 5 year period. Since the smoking/nonsmoking sections are assigned by table number, they could get sales data separated by smoking preference. This was important to them because it could mean millions of dollars in sales every year. They either wanted to fight the legislation, or jump ahead of the market and make their restaurants nonsmoking ahead of the curve.

The gist of the results were that smokers not only drink more alcohol, they also ate more appetizers and desserts. I would say that bad habits do not stand alone I was not there for the final conclusions as I resigned shortly thereafter. What I do know is that they didn't open any nonsmoking restaurants if they weren't forced to. So I would surmise that the data supported the initial conclusions.

The winds of change are there though. I think that at some point people will realize that smoking is bad for you On the business side, the scale is still leaning toward the smoking side if it is allowed by law. Maybe, some day, it will tip the other way. I can see a lot of benefits to being nonsmoking when it comes to maintenance and such, but for now, I just don't see it as a good business decision.

What I tell the zealots now is I would gladly put up a 20% stake in a nonsmoking venue in this market. There is a building that would be perfect right across the street. If you REALLY believe this is the way to go, you wouldn't mind putting up the other 80% because you would make a killing. I will be your silent partner and adviser on running the business. I will provide the exact same experience you would get in my place and we will see which one folds first.

Funny thing is, I haven't had any takers yet.

[muzicman144]

Originally Posted by marklwood

You are not just whistlin' Dixie.
What I tell the zealots now is I would gladly put up a 20% stake in a nonsmoking venue in this market. There is a building that would be perfect right across the street. If you REALLY believe this is the way to go, you wouldn't mind putting up the other 80% because you would make a killing. I will be your silent partner and adviser on running the business. I will provide the exact same experience you would get in my place and we will see which one folds first.

Funny thing is, I haven't had any takers yet.

The way the wind is blowing is every state will be smoke free in public very shortly. You won't have to open a partnership across the street, your place will be smoke free the way things are going.
I don't take sides either way!!
muzicman144

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by muzicman144

The way the wind is blowing is every state will be smoke free in public very shortly. You won't have to open a partnership across the street, your place will be smoke free the way things are going.
I don't take sides either way!!
muzicman144

That is the rub though. Labeling the the building that I paid for, pay taxes on. pay the utilities on, should be labeled a "Public" place. If the government wants to create these kind of restrictions on actual public property, that is for the majority to decide. When it comes to private property, the line seems to get moved.

The only argument that holds any water at all is the health of the employees. All of mine are also smokers, so any health concerns seem to be moot. We have employers in this town currently that will terminate employment if you work for them and don't quit smoking. Although it hasn't been challenged in court, I think it would hold up in this state because it is an "at will" employment state.

I think I will go the other way and not hire anyone who doesn't smoke. Doing what no one else does has always served me well in the past. If the law passes to ban smoking in bars, I'll just make it a private club of some sort to allow smoking.

[Musicman51]

"Whenever smoking and smoker's rights are discussed."
I wasn't aware a smoker had "Rights". I thought it fell under the same catagory as driving. It's a privilege not a right. I must have missed it when i studied the constitution in school. I'll read it again, i'm sure it's there.

"On the business side, the scale is still leaning toward the smoking side if it is allowed by law."

Exactly, and now that smoking in my state is no longer allowed by law in public places, it's a level playing field for all indoor seating establishments. Which is a plus for the small independent business operator. He no longer has to compete with huge chain resturants and bars, because they are now also by the will of the majority to be smoke free. Private clubs fall under the clean air health act just established by the majority in my state. The only places that are exampt, are vehicles private of course, casinos, and your own home.

As far as government and your rights, you would have no rights if it were not for government. You would have mayhem, confusion, and no rights at all essentially. We elect of government to represent the will of the majority. Non smokers are the majority. Majority rules. Now...if i wished to change this law, and i could if i were to find enough people who were smokers, and oppose it. But not going to happen in this case. Because as i said..majority rules.

"And this is exactly what our (U.S.) founding fathers had in mind when they wrote the constitution. Property owners using THEIR property in a way that best suits them (as long as it does not interfere with their neighbors property rights)."

There are no laws that i know of that prohibit you from smoking on your own property if you so desire to.

"We have a right to free speech on our property"
Yes and no... you do have the right of free speech on your property, as long as it does not interfere with the health and safety of others. You cannot for instance... umm lets say... stand in your front yard, and yell that a bomb will go off in 30 minutes, so everyone better get out. When in fact you know for a fact there is not one. Yes you have the right to say it, but not in the presents of others if it's an untruth. And here in lyes the non smoking VS: the smoking controversy. Notice, i didn't say "Smokers Rights VS: Non Smokers Rights" because smoking is not a right. When smoking interferes with the health and safety of others, its a no no. And that is what we have done here in michigan. It's that simple.

[billyo]

Originally Posted by marklwood

That is the rub though. Labeling the the building that I paid for, pay taxes on. pay the utilities on, should be labeled a "Public" place. If the government wants to create these kind of restrictions on actual public property, that is for the majority to decide. When it comes to private property, the line seems to get moved.

The only argument that holds any water at all is the health of the employees. All of mine are also smokers, so any health concerns seem to be moot. We have employers in this town currently that will terminate employment if you work for them and don't quit smoking. Although it hasn't been challenged in court, I think it would hold up in this state because it is an "at will" employment state.

I think I will go the other way and not hire anyone who doesn't smoke. Doing what no one else does has always served me well in the past. If the law passes to ban smoking in bars, I'll just make it a private club of some sort to allow smoking.

i remember a while back, there was a bar here in so. fla that's been here for quite sometime and very popular, they had karaoke 3x a week, when the no smoking thing came up, they decided to put up tents outside for the smokers, that lasted a few months, due to the fact that here in so.fla ( west palm beach )you'll never know what kind of weather you gonna get ( hot/rain,and sometimes both )and smokers/non smokers alike like to stay in a nice a/c room ,the place closed down. someone bought the business and opened again, this time had two separate closed rooms for smoker/non smokers, the non smoking section didnt do quite well, since all the fun was in the smoking section ( where the karaoke was), the owner decided to put up a sign on the door "smoking is allowed, enter at your own risk " or something like that.

[mindonstrike]

Originally Posted by marklwood

You are not just whistlin' Dixie.

I have been in the service business (rest/bar) for the last 30 years. One of those gigs was a 10 year stint as a manager for Red Lobster. As a corporation, General Mills restaurant division was concerned about the growing nonsmoking lobby even way back then. When I was in Orlando, for training they were mining data from the sales records over a 5 year period. Since the smoking/nonsmoking sections are assigned by table number, they could get sales data separated by smoking preference. This was important to them because it could mean millions of dollars in sales every year. They either wanted to fight the legislation, or jump ahead of the market and make their restaurants nonsmoking ahead of the curve.

And this is exactly what our (U.S.) founding fathers had in mind when they wrote the constitution. Property owners using THEIR property in a way that best suits them (as long as it does not interfere with their neighbors property rights).

All civil rights stem from property rights.We have a right to free speech on our property but not on someone elses, we have a right to keep and bare arms on our property but not on someone elses property, by the same token we have the right to demand that our property be smoke free but no one has a moral right to demand that someone else make their property smoke free.

Barring property owners from permitting smoking is just one more step down a slippery slope.
Remember, anything government can do for you, they can also do to you.

Sam

[RandyMcCharles]

I think Muzicman was suggesting that of the venues 'he' plays, the non-smoking venues are better behaved. This will not hold true everywhere. Of the venues I go to sing at, the older the crowd the better behaved. Nothing to do with smoking or even drinking. The younger crowds just have less respect for people and things. One of the KJs here will not host younger crowds. He gave that up years ago and will now only host older venues.

[billyo]

Originally Posted by RandyMcCharles

I think Muzicman was suggesting that of the venues 'he' plays, the non-smoking venues are better behaved. This will not hold true everywhere. Of the venues I go to sing at, the older the crowd the better behaved. Nothing to do with smoking or even drinking. The younger crowds just have less respect for people and things. One of the KJs here will not host younger crowds. He gave that up years ago and will now only host older venues.

i'm the same way, i quit doing bars,due to younger dis-respectful crowds, i dont even do teen private parties anymore, but there will always be one in every crowd, i just do semi upscale restaurants ( you'll never believe that these people loved to do karaoke ) and i do country clubs , you don't see a lot of them smoking cigarettes ( in country clubs ), just cigars, the only drawback was i don't get paid the same night,good tippers though, and they are all good behave..just tired of hearing " My Way, New York New York "

[RandyMcCharles]

We regularly attend 2 karaoke bars. One has patons of all ages but regular singers aged 25-75 that includes several semi-pro singers. There is always a wide variety of songs and styles. The other has most patrons (singer and non-singer) aged 35-75, almost no younger people (unlike the first venue) where the singers sing mostly broadway, with several songs sung every single week. We frequent these venues because of the lack of unruly young folks. We occasionally go to more typical bars with younger folk, most of whom won't sing until they've had 1 too many. (Note we are 50ish and have put young unruly days behind us.)

[ddouglass]

Texas has also debated the smoking ban several times and so far it hasn't passed, though it is getting closer. All of the major cities here have passed their own bans, but for now we in the sticks don't have a ban. I do suspect it is only a matter of time. When that happens you wil find me on the patio outback of the VFW.
The VFW where we play every weekend is an "open" post simply because we don't have enough members to support the post and we are only 1 of 3 watering holes in this area. However, we have very strick rules and anyone who gets unruly is barred and usually it is permanent. The young people who come in there learn to have respect for the flag, country, and people who are their elders or they are asked to leave. We do not tolerate disrepect to anyone in the post.
We always have a good crowd of all ages and some great singers. Thankfully we only have one who wants to sing New York, New York and she comes in very seldom.

[Musicman51]

MusicMan, Michigan is trying to pass a law to stop smoking in all public places. The only exception would be casinos. I also think that since VFW's, American Legion's, Am Vets, etc. are not 'public' they may also be an exception"

Not sure if this was addressed to myself or not. But since i do live in this god forsaken..well this state i will try to remark to this comment. You can find the article link on one of my other post here in this thread. But the only public places exampt from this new non smoking mandate. Would be private vehicles, and state and indian ran casinos. thats it. Private clubs such as VFW's American Legions, Elks, Moose, AmVets, etc fall under this new no smoking mandadte. It will be illegal on May 1st 2010 to smoke indoors at clubs such as the ones i just mentioned. Actually, our state government hates to see the tax dollars from a pack of cigarettes go bye bye. Here in michigan we have one of the highest, if not the highest tax on tobacco products in the nation. But...... as i said before the "majority" have spoken. You know, it's kinda like. I purchase a brand new chevy, pay $25,000 for it, $350 a month insurance, gas tax {one of the highest in the nation outside california i understand}, road tax, tolls, car licenses each year, driverse license. It's my private property, i bought paid for it, pay to use it. Yet the majority say i can't drive wherever i please in any direction, or how fast, or drunk. Same thing as the smokers {rights} privileges debate. As i said..i can sit here and sympathize with youse smokers out there..i was a 3 pack a day smoker myself. I know it's tough. I wish each smoker the best of luck, if you decide to continue smoking, or to just give it up and give in to the masses. I have enjoyed everyones views on this subject. The debate will continue for years to come i'm sure. I wish all you guys a great christmas, and if you should decide to try and give it up and quit smoking..remember KEEP QUITTING untill you finally do. Best of health and luck in the new upcoming year. God Bless, George