You're not good enough to sing here

[Lloyd Te Kani]

Originally Posted by billyo

i do the same, id rather have people in their mid 30s or older to my show, than teen agers, not that i dont like them, its just when i get teen agers sometimes they get so roudy and abnoxious to the others and all they wanted to do was rap, dont get me wrong i play a lot of rap/hip-hops when i dj..but 30s or older thats when people really enjoy going to karaoke places..

I'm with you guys. Personally, I'll leave the younger over-zealous age group to someone else. I deliberately aim for the 30 plus-ers and want my venue to have a reputation as somewhere where they can come and know they're going to be treated fairly and don't have to put up with a lot of screaming rowdy drunken kids who think the world owes them a living. Juding by my ever growing patronage, it seems to be working!

[Tamastara]

Everyone will probably hate me for saying this, but depending on the size of the room, really bad singers can lose you business.

I work in a small karaoke place that's known for its selection (collected over 10 years by myself) & professional equipment, including a Mackie 808M head & speakers, Shure 58 mics (those things are $600 a pop), & regular crowd of classic rock & 80s enthusiasts. There are a number of professional singers in our regular crowd & we are a regular hang out for local rock musicians. Our regular crowd has shaped itself over the years into a small community of people who appreciate music that sounds good, & come to our place because of the caliber of the karaoke on most nights.

We're small --- like 5 tables & perhaps 5 seats at the bar. The regulars all know eachother & there's a lot of great dueting & harmonizing most nights. Recently a newspaper wrote a stunning review about our place - completely unsolicited by us - & suddenly we were invaded by hordes of newcomers who had no idea how to behave in a 5-table hole in the wall. Dancing on chairs, 10-man singalongs, girls gone wild action --- all this is well & good in certain (larger) bars, but in ours it's just ugly.

Bad singers in our place, if given the mic more than a few songs, will actually cause our regulars to ask for their tabs & go home. The problem is, our regulars spend waaaay more money than the tourists. We have fellows who leave $20-$50 tips, just for themselves, regardless of what their tab was. And they tip that way because they enjoyed themselves.

Just the other week I served 3 tone deaf newcomers who, between the 3 of them ordered 2 glasses of water, then turned in an order for 7 songs. We don't have a drink minimum because we've never needed to. When their songs came up, these folks then screamed, jumping up & down, at the top of their lungs. There was no quality, just a large quantity --- of noise.

The thing about having a room of musicians or good singers is that you basically have a room of people with good hearing, better than the average person, simply because it comes along with playing music. So when something like this happens, the level of torture for your people with good ears is much worse than in other situations.

When they paid their $7 tab at the end of the night, after having taken up table space for 2 hours, they tipped $1. Fortunately they hadn't chased any regulars out.

It's just not worth it.

They did come in again night before last, & while I didn't deny them their right to spend $3 on 3 songs & nothing on their glasses of water, I did scatter their songs as widely as I could to minimize the suffering of my regulars. At the end of the night, if any songs had to be bumped, it was going to be theirs. It sounds unfair but then again I'm the one who makes the rules.

Our situation is probably a unique one; chances are most of you karaoke hosts have to put up with way more than I ever have, but when we opened this bar the intention was to have quality, not quantity, & we worked hard to make it this way. I fully admit that I am a snob.

Sometimes bad singers do need to be managed.

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by Tamastara

Everyone will probably hate me for saying this, but depending on the size of the room, really bad singers can lose you business.

I work in a small karaoke place that's known for its selection (collected over 10 years by myself) & professional equipment, including a Mackie 808M head & speakers, Shure 58 mics (those things are $600 a pop), & regular crowd of classic rock & 80s enthusiasts.

I don't think anybody will hate you. I do a little, only because you consistently get to hear good singers I relish those moments when someone gets up a wows me. I do think you may need to reconsider your shopping habits though. I use Shure SM 58s exclusively and I rarely pay more than $100 for them. I think that the size of your club allows you to be a little more selective. As a bar owner myself, I have a relatively small venue for my town but I can still accommodate 100 or so. The larger the venue, the larger the overhead. The numbers don't translate when you get larger. You can't fill 100 seats with good quality singers that pay a premium. Because of this, you need volume. That is why I have to put up with the yayhoos that you are refering to. I also just don't have it in me to treat people badly. I hear all the stories of the number of rules the other KJs have especially about the equipment. I can't seem to be a Nazi about this. I just fix or repair what I can, and replace the rest. But I limit the items within reach of the audience to mics, stands, and cords.

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by Tamastara

Everyone will probably hate me for saying this, but depending on the size of the room, really bad singers can lose you business.

I work in a small karaoke place that's known for its selection (collected over 10 years by myself) & professional equipment, including a Mackie 808M head & speakers, Shure 58 mics (those things are $600 a pop), & regular crowd of classic rock & 80s enthusiasts. There are a number of professional singers in our regular crowd & we are a regular hang out for local rock musicians. Our regular crowd has shaped itself over the years into a small community of people who appreciate music that sounds good, & come to our place because of the caliber of the karaoke on most nights.

We're small --- like 5 tables & perhaps 5 seats at the bar. The regulars all know eachother & there's a lot of great dueting & harmonizing most nights. Recently a newspaper wrote a stunning review about our place - completely unsolicited by us - & suddenly we were invaded by hordes of newcomers who had no idea how to behave in a 5-table hole in the wall. Dancing on chairs, 10-man singalongs, girls gone wild action --- all this is well & good in certain (larger) bars, but in ours it's just ugly.

Bad singers in our place, if given the mic more than a few songs, will actually cause our regulars to ask for their tabs & go home. The problem is, our regulars spend waaaay more money than the tourists. We have fellows who leave $20-$50 tips, just for themselves, regardless of what their tab was. And they tip that way because they enjoyed themselves.

Just the other week I served 3 tone deaf newcomers who, between the 3 of them ordered 2 glasses of water, then turned in an order for 7 songs. We don't have a drink minimum because we've never needed to. When their songs came up, these folks then screamed, jumping up & down, at the top of their lungs. There was no quality, just a large quantity --- of noise.

The thing about having a room of musicians or good singers is that you basically have a room of people with good hearing, better than the average person, simply because it comes along with playing music. So when something like this happens, the level of torture for your people with good ears is much worse than in other situations.

When they paid their $7 tab at the end of the night, after having taken up table space for 2 hours, they tipped $1. Fortunately they hadn't chased any regulars out.

It's just not worth it.

They did come in again night before last, & while I didn't deny them their right to spend $3 on 3 songs & nothing on their glasses of water, I did scatter their songs as widely as I could to minimize the suffering of my regulars. At the end of the night, if any songs had to be bumped, it was going to be theirs. It sounds unfair but then again I'm the one who makes the rules.

Our situation is probably a unique one; chances are most of you karaoke hosts have to put up with way more than I ever have, but when we opened this bar the intention was to have quality, not quantity, & we worked hard to make it this way. I fully admit that I am a snob.

Sometimes bad singers do need to be managed.

Is there a way in your state to make your bar a private exclusive club? The only other way I could see to keep the numbers of tourists down would be to raise your drink prices and use only bottled water. It sounds like your regulars could afford it if they leave that large a tip and probably would agree to it though the tips might get a bit smaller.
You do have a unique situation and I think we can all understand, but as long as you are a public bar you really can't refuse to let them sing and should be treating them the same way as your regulars. Otherwise your next review may be a really bad one.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by Tamastara

Shure 58 mics (those things are $600 a pop),

I SURE HOPE you are talking about the high end wireless. If you are paying $600 for wired, you are getting MAJORLY ripped off!

[capnvic]

Originally Posted by Lonman

I SURE HOPE you are talking about the high end wireless. If you are paying $600 for wired, you are getting MAJORLY ripped off!

I use wired Sennheiser 835s myself and rarely do those mics go above $100. I hope it is a wireless SM58 system...

[Tamastara]

I just noticed those smilies over there.

Originally Posted by Lonman

I SURE HOPE you are talking about the high end wireless. If you are paying $600 for wired, you are getting MAJORLY ripped off!

Wireless. One of our patrons owns a successful guitar shop & that's a good price... but... we're in Hawaii. So everything costs an arm & a leg.

Originally Posted by ddouglass

Is there a way in your state to make your bar a private exclusive club? The only other way I could see to keep the numbers of tourists down would be to raise your drink prices and use only bottled water. It sounds like your regulars could afford it if they leave that large a tip and probably would agree to it though the tips might get a bit smaller.
You do have a unique situation and I think we can all understand, but as long as you are a public bar you really can't refuse to let them sing and should be treating them the same way as your regulars. Otherwise your next review may be a really bad one.

The prices are higher than any other bar in the area. We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at all, & that includes the karaoke. Mind you, service is RARELY refused (I have earplugs). Also, it's good reviews that are slaughtering us. A bad review would probably help us out a lot; with 5 tables most nights it's SRO, even on the nights with only regulars.

A bad review might actually save our business. We have some regulars who work for the Star Bulletin. I should talk to them.

As far as exclusivity, if I really wanted to I could put Reserved signs on all the tables. I can also tell undesirables that the karaoke is full & I can't take any more orders. I can also tell them that although the bar is open, the karaoke has been reserved by one of the parties in the room, so only they can use it. There are many ways to lock undesirables out, but it's never become THAT much of an issue.

Originally Posted by capnvic

I use wired Sennheiser 835s myself and rarely do those mics go above $100. I hope it is a wireless SM58 system...

Sennheisers are great mics! We had a couple at one point, but we liked the Shures better. The Sennheisers didn't last long, either... they actually got dropped & trampled on the weekends. This is why I don't work weekends. I wouldn't be able to handle it. And yes, the Shures are wireless. I use my own wired 58beta behind the bar, but on the floor a wired mic would... well, the wire would be a problem.

Edit: I should probably explain that in Hawaii, the karaoke practice is to move the mics to the customers sitting at their tables, thereby creating the need for a wireless. I think on the mainland you guys use a stage & customers sing always in that one spot. Here we charge $1 per song & when the songs come up in rotation, we move the mics to the table that ordered them. Yeah, a lot more work for less money probably. It hasn't changed in the 10+ years I've been here.

[billyo]

i use a pair of sm58s and a pair of audix mics and i surely didnt pay that much for ea. of them, they saw you coming..but anyway if your customers are leaving that much tips,then i'm pretty sure you're getting paid more than any of us, so you can afford it..you sholud just make your place of work a private club

[RandyMcCharles]

I recently returned from a vacation in Mexico. We asked around where they might be karaoke and the only place the hotel staff were aware of was a certain restuarant/bar. We showed up at 6:30 for dinner. Karaoke stared at 7 and for the 1st hour things were fine. Then between 8-9 all of the local regulars showed up and we noticed that the 'tourists' were no longer being called up to sing. After waiting forever we left, without leaving the karaoke host a trip. (In Mexico wages are low and everyone has a tip jar). I had a healthy tip put aside, but once we determined the lay of the land, no tip.

Walking back to our hotel we passed another restuarant with a karaoke advertized for 2 days later and went there the appropriate evening. This restuarant/bar catered to tourists and well as locals and we had a great time. We later found a 3rd restuarant/bar that worked the same way.

So, was there a problem with the 1st bar? That they catered to locals at the expense of tourists is not a problem. That is their right and privilege. That they played it both ways and did not inform the tourists (so as not to lose tourist dinner revenue) is a problem. Ultimately they do lose tourist revene because tourists talk to each other and give the place a bad rep. eg. We told people not to go there because their food/ambiance was no better than anywhere else, while we did recommend the 2nd karaoke bar (among others) because their food and drink was the best we found (we went there 5 times over 2 weeks). And if you wanted to do karaoke, avoid the 1st bar.

In the circumstance starting this thread I see a small established place with adequate regulars. To inform the public of the way things work (so that you don't have the same problem in the future) I would consider switching the sign from 'karaoke' to 'live entertainment', your quality regulars being the live entertainment. If anyone wants further explanation just say it is a public bar with private karaoke. Anyone is free to enjoy listening, but singing is by invitation.