getting new Mixer: Mackie???

[Monolithent]

And something I just noticed about this particular mixer is that there are 2 sets of main outs, one pair on top of the console and one pair on the back. You could run your sub amp from one pair and the full range amp from the other pair. A lot more connections but it is an option and you could still run stereo if you like. It would keep you from having to use the unbalanced tape outs and be able to run a balanced cable so your signal would be much cleaner to your amps.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Monolithent

And something I just noticed about this particular mixer is that there are 2 sets of main outs, one pair on top of the console and one pair on the back. You could run your sub amp from one pair and the full range amp from the other pair. A lot more connections but it is an option and you could still run stereo if you like. It would keep you from having to use the unbalanced tape outs and be able to run a balanced cable so your signal would be much cleaner to your amps.

Not really concerned about stereo but agree with you on cleaner signal. didn't notice the main outputs on top when i was looking at the mackie site, are you sure they weren't send/return effects or womething else, as I seem to remember.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Monolithent

It would keep you from having to use the unbalanced tape outs and be able to run a balanced cable so your signal would be much cleaner to your amps.

The main outputs on top are not an XLR however, I'm not familiar with a balanced 1/4" as opposed to an unbalanced 1/4". How do I determine the precise difference Mono?

[Lonman]

You would have a lot better sound & a much easier time with an external crossover feeding both the subs & mains - only because you are not crossing over the tops at the same frequency the subs are so they are trying to reproduce the sub frequencies still as well running into some possible phase cancellation & loss of frequencies in some of the low end. A crossover point of 75-100 is more ideal for subs as well.
That being said, the XLR & 1/4" balanced main outputs can be used simultaneously giving you main volume control for both amps you wish to push. It will be better than using a tape out for a connection.
The computer hooks to the mixer via a USB cable only, no need for the 1/8" mini jack or anything else. The PROFX actually acts as a I/O sound interface so could be used on a computer with no sound card at all - the mixer IS the sound card!

1/4" balanced is a tip/ring/sleeve - looks like a standard headphone plug. An unbalanced is a tip/ring - looks like a 1/4" plug you'd plug into say a guitar.
I attached pics of a bal & unbal plug - notice the extra ring on the balanced plug. For the Mackie output, use the balanced on the mixer & if your amp has XLR inputs, go balanced 1/4" - to XLR (determine whether you need male or female on the amp).
You could try to run both programs at the same time, but like said they may try to cancel each other out - even if only one is sending a signal.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Lonman

You would have a lot better sound & a much easier time with an external crossover feeding both the subs & mains - only because you are not crossing over the tops at the same frequency the subs are so they are trying to reproduce the sub frequencies still as well running into some possible phase cancellation & loss of frequencies in some of the low end. A crossover point of 75-100 is more ideal for subs as well.
That being said, the XLR & 1/4" balanced main outputs can be used simultaneously giving you main volume control for both amps you wish to push. It will be better than using a tape out for a connection.
The computer hooks to the mixer via a USB cable only, no need for the 1/8" mini jack or anything else. The PROFX actually acts as a I/O sound interface so could be used on a computer with no sound card at all - the mixer IS the sound card!

1/4" balanced is a tip/ring/sleeve - looks like a standard headphone plug. An unbalanced is a tip/ring - looks like a 1/4" plug you'd plug into say a guitar.
I attached pics of a bal & unbal plug - notice the extra ring on the balanced plug. For the Mackie output, use the balanced on the mixer & if your amp has XLR inputs, go balanced 1/4" - to XLR (determine whether you need male or female on the amp).
You could try to run both programs at the same time, but like said they may try to cancel each other out - even if only one is sending a signal.

Great info Lon, I knew you'd jump in here sooner or later.

When you say 1/4" to XLR. Just curious why that would make a diff. as compared to bal. 1/4" on both ends, as it's only the end that is adapted and not the continuous length of wire. Think I read that somewhere?

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by bryant

Great info Lon, I knew you'd jump in here sooner or later.

When you say 1/4" to XLR. Just curious why that would make a diff. as compared to bal. 1/4" on both ends, as it's only the end that is adapted and not the continuous length of wire. Think I read that somewhere?

Only because of a better connection with the XLR - you could use a balanaced 1/4" on the amp input - provided it has them. You haven't listed the models of the amps yet as well & some amps don't have balanced 1/4" inputs & you don't really want to mix a balanced with an unbalanced if at all possible.

[Monolithent]

Originally Posted by bryant

Great info Lon, I knew you'd jump in here sooner or later.

When you say 1/4" to XLR. Just curious why that would make a diff. as compared to bal. 1/4" on both ends, as it's only the end that is adapted and not the continuous length of wire. Think I read that somewhere?

It really wouldn't, not enough to really make a difference. It is still the same signal. You can get cables that have an XLR on one end and a TRS on the other so you don't have to adapt. The more often you adapt the more signal you lose.

[billyo]

i'm not knocking Behringer out, but soundwise i prefer mackie's over anything, and price wise it's reasonable, and talking about amps, i also prefer crowns, i have 2 crown amps the CE1000 which i have my ( 2 ) 3 way JBl Soundf Factor hooked up , and CE2000 where my (2 ) subs are connected via Subsonic Harmonizer with a built in Subs connections, this way i dont have to use any crossovers or any eq's all these are connected to my mackies CFX 12 with channel assignable feature..which i assigned all the vocals to channels 1/2 and the sounds assigned to channels 3/4,which i can control thru my main fader, and my 2 stage monitors assigned to aux/send 1&2 by themselves and with their own volume control..

[bryant]

Originally Posted by billyo

i'm not knocking Behringer out, but soundwise i prefer mackie's over anything, and price wise it's reasonable, and talking about amps, i also prefer crowns, i have 2 crown amps the CE1000 which i have my ( 2 ) 3 way JBl Soundf Factor hooked up , and CE2000 where my (2 ) subs are connected via Subsonic Harmonizer with a built in Subs connections, this way i dont have to use any crossovers or any eq's all these are connected to my mackies CFX 12 with channel assignable feature..which i assigned all the vocals to channels 1/2 and the sounds assigned to channels 3/4,which i can control thru my main fader, and my 2 stage monitors assigned to aux/send 1&2 by themselves and with their own volume control..

Isn't channels 3/4 for mic inputs though?

[Monolithent]

Originally Posted by billyo

i'm not knocking Behringer out, but soundwise i prefer mackie's over anything, and price wise it's reasonable, and talking about amps, i also prefer crowns, i have 2 crown amps the CE1000 which i have my ( 2 ) 3 way JBl Soundf Factor hooked up , and CE2000 where my (2 ) subs are connected via Subsonic Harmonizer with a built in Subs connections, this way i dont have to use any crossovers or any eq's all these are connected to my mackies CFX 12 with channel assignable feature..which i assigned all the vocals to channels 1/2 and the sounds assigned to channels 3/4,which i can control thru my main fader, and my 2 stage monitors assigned to aux/send 1&2 by themselves and with their own volume control..

Not disagreeing with you by any means. I love Mackies. If I had the money to afford them for my systems I would. My preference over them is Soundcraft or Allen & Heath. Even then not every Soundcraft. I have my subs running off one of the Crown CE2000 amps and it sounds very good.

There are several good amps on the market. I listened to many of them back to back. The Behringer had just as good a sound as nearly any of them and was the lowest cost. Without real measuring equipment I will guarantee not too many people can tell the difference between them. Don't misunderstand. I love other brands and there were others that sounded better but I didn't see why I would spend that much more money for something that didn't sound that much better.

[Monolithent]

Easiest way to tell the difference on a 1/4 inch connector is to look at the connector.

Unbalanced cables have only one separator ring and balanced have two.

Unbalanced are capable of signal travel but are limited in their distance. Balanced are a superior choice as they are not much if any more expensive per linear foot and the second signal connection helps to cancel out interference from outside sources (such as power cables)

Unbalanced cables are often caled TS (tip+sleeve) cables
Balanced cables are known as TRS (tip+ring+sleeve) cables

The plusses (+) in the above statement would correspond to separator rings referred to in the second line of this post.

Make sense?

[Monolithent]

Thanks Lonman.

I had to disappear for a little bit.

I find that the crossover frequency depends on the Sub. Different ones like different settings for different situations. I agree with you that 75 to 100 is a good start.

I didn't address a crossover because there wasn't one mentioned in the setup. And with the setup being what it is a simple adjustable lowpass filter would suffice as well. Don't know about the cost of such an animal, though.

[billyo]

Bryant, go to www.mackie.com and they have a karaoke hook up guide for the pro12..it's easy enough to follow...this would avoid all the comfusion...

[bryant]

Originally Posted by billyo

Bryant, go to www.mackie.com and they have a karaoke hook up guide for the pro12..it's easy enough to follow...this would avoid all the comfusion...

Yup, I been there all day but still wanted input from you guys. And thanx for that (input) as well.