Copying Multisession Discs

[Mustangt93]

My question is this. I don't like to talk about other software while I am in the MTU site, but another program does allow you to duplicate straight from one burner to the other without going thru the hard drive on a multisession disk. I have just recently purchase Microstudio so I am new to this but it looks to me like Microstudio does NOT give you that feature if it is a multisession disk. It looks as though you have to copy each track in from the multisession disk and then make a custom disk from that. Am I wrong? Is there a way to be able to copy straight from one burner drive (I have two Plextors) to the other on a multisession disk without having to go thru the hard drive and make a custom disk? Thanks...

[jim in ohio]

I too use the other program for some backups, If Microstudio, and clone were packaged together in my opinion, that would be the perfect package.

Rumor has it that the next version of Microstudio will offer disc at once ability with two burners, but have not heard anything about multi-session. That would be a good item for you to post on the new features request thread.

Using Microstudio you will need to use the custom assembly, just skipping the last track, the data track to backup multi session.

Jim

[Mustangt93]

Thanks for the info. I kind of thought I was going to have to do it that way. But with clone you don't have to skip the last track. You can copy the entire disk without cutting out the last track on these multisessions and it seems to work fine. So, if Microstudio were made with that feature just like clone (I'm talking only on the multisession, not the Mediacloq) then it should work the same way. A multisession disk is not necessarily a means of copy protection...although it does keep goldenhawk from being able to do it...LOL. I'm kind of curious about one thing,though...what happens to HOSTER if the CDG companies go back to protecting their disks? It will be impossible to host a karaoke show with your computer if you can't import the CDG songs because of copy protection. It's the one thing making me kind of leary of purchasing Hoster. As far as the ease HOSTER would give to a karaoke show, I'm all for it.

[jim in ohio]

We have 6 road units, I too am taking the wait and see approach on what the big three (Sound Choice, Chartbusters, and Music Maestro) do with Media Cloq, and how Hoster will be able to deal with it.
You know it's only a matter of time before they get brave enough to try it again, I'm sure they have worked the bugs out that caused all the problems with the combo players.

I'll never purchase a protected disc!!!!

Jim

[Mustangt93]

That's the problem...hoster probably won't be able to deal with it. That's why I'm very afraid to purchase it. Of course it would still save time and space to put the 12,000 songs I have in hoster and if they all start using protection for their disks, just have to keep a serparate case for those.

But, then there is still that problem with the disks messing up. If they mess up and you can't back them up, you have to buy that whole entire disks all over again. And I have some Sound Choice disks that are messed up that are only like a few months old!

I take VERY good care of my disks...it's just that sliding them in and out of those cases rubs that paint off of them. And there's no way I can keep them all in a jewel case like SC suggested. Oh yeah...carry around 1200 disks in jewel cases? The soft cases take up an entire 6 foot table as it is! I can imagine trying to carry around 20 or 30 jewel case holders!

To tell you the truth, if Sound Choice start protecting their disks again, I'll get out of this business. There is already way too much expense for the amount of money I'm bringing in. I only have one system and I try to keep up with all the new stuff. If I have to keep buying new discs and replacing old ones every few months it will be impossible to make any money. Nope... if they protect, I'm gone. Simple as that. But I will recoup the money I've lost on these damaged CD's mind you. I'm already working on that.

[kedmison]

Mustangt93,

I too was a little leary about making the jump. But I finally bit the bullet and have ordered Hoster and the laptop. There's too many people out working on ways around the anticopy protection. And my bottom line, is that if I own the original I should be able to back it up. As far as the paint peeling off the sound choice: I have about 4 Sound Choice discs in my system of 218 discs, about 4,300 songs, that I couldn't copy. Because I too fear the quality of the SC discs, I covered each of the four with a disc label. This helps protect the finish.

Kelly

[kedmison]

Mustangt93,...P.S.

I have talked too many other KJ who use the single try machine and have to individally handle the discs. The constant wear against their individual pockects does wear on them. I went with a Sony 400 disc player. Less wear and tear on the disc. And of course now I'll be going to no wear and tear.

Kelly

[Ernie]

The upgrade that's suppose to be here Wednesday the 20th, will have the Disc At Once with two writers.
When I called Sound Choice to complain about Media Clog, awhile back, I was told to return any damaged SC disc for a free replacement. BUT!!, you have to pay almost $6 for shipping and handeling!! I just sent two disc's in an insulated envelope to my brother. The insulated envelope was 30 cents, and the shipping at the Post Office was 89 cents. I really liked Sound Choice, but Chartbusters is looking better all the time!

Take care,
Ernie

[Mustangt93]

Well, look forward to the new version. That last time I contacted SC they told me that on any disk older that 1 year it would cost full cost plus shipping...in anything a year or less, it would be $5 plus shipping. But that's still too much money for a disk that's not even a year old. They should replace them for nothing. It's ridiculous.

[admin]

Do any other manufacturer's discs you have get damaged inserting and withdrawing from the sloft sleeves like Sound Choice discs?

Microstudio - We have added direct disc to disc copy, but... we are not using the RAWDAO method that Clone uses. That is an entirely different method that would cost us a LOT to code and debug. Plus, a CDR drive that can work with RAWDAO for duplicating MAY NOT allow copying individual songs to make a custom assembly (or rebuild a damaged disc), or play the songs on your computer. There are always tradeoffs in technology, and this is one of them.

Hoster and MediaCloq - We are concerned about this. We will start negotiating shortly with the major manufacturers to allow MTU to market their songs already compressed as MTU KMA files. We should be able to get around 200 songs per CDROM. Any manufacturer who refuses to work with MTU will suffer. We expect Hoster to be running a large number of Karaoke shows very soon. Thus, we will create a new market for songs to run on Hoster. If a manufactuer refuses to license us and provide a non-mediacloq protected disc, their songs will not be played... and they will lose income.

There are more and more ways appearing worldwide to obtain the music without vocals, and our KHPro software is being massively upgraded as I type to make it even easier and faster to add the lyrics in perfect sync. Also, we have been working on a Vogone upgrade that we feel might be patentable. If we can produce a production version of what we demoed in our engineering lab, we can change the face of Karaoke.

The results our Hoster users are reporting are exactly what we spend 4 years designing it to do.... albeit still incredible to hear! One report from England stated using Hoster takes one-tenth the time to manage the show versus using CDs. Another reported that his wife now wants to run the equipment while he is working the audience and the singers. Before, she was afraid to make a mistake with the equipment, but now she wants to do it!

[kjzone]

SoundChoice Discs.......

I have had a lot of trouble with the Vinyl Disc Sleeves that SoundChoice sells........manufactured by Univenture

they cause a chemical reaction with the printed surface on the various manufacturers discs.....especially Pioneer.

I have switch to CaseLogic and have had NO PROBLEMS in the past 2.5 years.

[George]

KELLY,

DON"T HOLD YOUR BREATH WAITING FOR ANTI-COPY GUARD DEVICES TO HIT THE MARKET. SOUND CHOICE & ASSOCIATES HAVE CLOSED THAT DOOR. READ BELOW, AND BELOW THAT IS A LINK TO THE SITE THAT IT WAS COPIED FROM. GOOD INSIGHT TO CURRENT COPYWRITE LAWS. HARDLY ANY SUCH THING AS PUBLIC DOMAIN LEFT, EITHER.


In order to transact commerce in the "digital environment," the entertainment industry is expected to rely heavily on anti-copying systems -- for example, systems that scramble digital signals or prevent second generation copying (that is, you can copy a work once, but not twice). In addition, copyright owners are planning to implement a system of embedded copyright management information (CMIs or "digital watermarks") in their copies. These CMIs will identify the copyright owner and provide information about the work.

To prevent the circumvention of these systems, Congress passed Title I of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (the "DMCA"). This legislation outlaws "little black box" technology. A little black box is any program or device that undoes the copy-protection systems installed by the entertainment industry. Or as it's officially described, it's anything that exists primarily to "avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner." There are criminal and civil penalties for those who make and market this technology. The prohibition against little black boxes goes into effect immediately. Under certain conditions, law enforcement agencies are exempt from these requirements.

http://www.nolo.com/index.cfm

George

[Mustangt93]

Well, this information is just a bit disturbing, George. All I can say is the quality of their CD's better get better if they are going to impliment something like that. Because if we are NOT able to backup disks incase of problems...especially with sound choice...they know they make disks of poor physical quality. I will just drop my karaoke business and move to a new profession before I will keep buying replacement disks from any of them. And I'm sure a lot of people will. A move like this will not only put karaoke companies out of business, it will also hurt the music industry too....although not as bad. SC and other companies will find out the hard way just how many loyal customers they have that run karaoke shows. When those people stop buying and go out of business because of this, they'll be sorry. A karaoke business the magnitude of mine and some others can't afford to keep replacing disks. I can't tell you how many I've had to redo lately just because they are unplayable due to whatever it is that makes those SC disks deteriorate in the cases. I have always used the Case logic cases and I take very good care of my disks, but no matter how much I try to take care of them, that paint on the front of the disk rubs off. I have disks in the early to mid Power Pick 3300's that are already messing up due to whatever this problem is. And it's not due to me abusing disks. Why in the world would I abuse something I'ver paid so much money to keep running. No one seems to have any loyalty to customers anymore. It's a sad day.

[kjzone]

Under current Copyright Law only Phonograph Records are protected.

The Digital Milennium Copyright Act "Did Not Amend" the current Copyright Law and stands alone and untested. Additionally it has not reached the status of "Positive Law".

Under the DMCA, companies such as SoundChoice are taking the position that "Digital Music" are "Phonograph Records" and enforceable under the current Copyright Law, but this position has not been tested by the Appellate Courts.

SoundChoice is using the threat of a law suits to make small karaoke services, caught using copied discs to sign a "Consent Agreeement" not to copy discs in the future in lew of a suit not being filed against those companies.

SoundChoice has also be found to not be paying the royalties to some copyright holders.

Philips NV, a dutch compay, who holds about 70% of the patents on digital coding has informed SoundChoice that they may not use the Compact Disc Trademark on their Discs, that contain the MediaCloq Protection, as it is a violation of Philips Trademark, because the use of the Trademark on Discs that will not play on DVD players is a violation of the rights the Trademark stands for.

Philips has also taken the position that they do not like the copy protection on Discs and has vowed to make future releases of their CD-RW units to be able to read all Copy Protection Schemes.

CORRECTION: Just checked on WestLaw and the DMCA did "amend" Title 17 of the US Code BUT "DID NOT REPLACE" TITLE 17. The DCMA still stands alone and subject to Federal District Court and Appellate Court interpretation based on the Court's reading of the Act and the Legislative History of the Act.

[Mustangt93]

Well, that's good to know...LOL. Let's just hope they always make the able to copy the CDG format. I'd buy philips in a heartbeat...LOL.

[George]

Gotta do some digging. I read recently that for copywrite purposes cd's have been classified as phonograph records, and are afforded the same protection, so don't breathe too easy on that point

George.

This isn't the same one I remember reading. This covers it, but is not as specific.

Music copyright - Copyrighting Musical Works - The copyright laws permit registration of sound recordings. Only sound recordings that have been "fixed" may be protected under the copyright laws. In other words, a work must be "recorded by any method now known or later developed" in order to receive protection.

http://www.weblawresources.com/Copyr...ting-music.htm

[George]

NOW HERE'S AN INTERESTING TIDBIT...MORAL: UPGRADER BEWARE, OR DON'T FIX WHAT AIN'T BROKE!


Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:20:07 -0400
Subject: Fwd: [X Newbies] Copywrite protection now in CD recording software
Wrom: IYZUNNYCGPKYLEJGDGVCJVTLBXFGGMEPYOQKE
To: declan@well.com

You may wan to share this with Politechers.

Begin forwarded message:

>Date: Thu Jul 11, 2002 11:07:32 AM US/Eastern
>To: (Mac OS X Newbies)
>Subject: [X Newbies] Copywrite protection now in CD recording software
>Reply-To: ( Mac OS X Newbies)
>
>Just thought everyone might like to know that the latest update of Toast
>(5.1.4) has this paragraph buried in the licensing agreement. I would
>assume that this is present in the PC program EZ CD Creator as well:
>
>Just a few days ago, I retrieved the v5.1.4 update for Roxio's Toast CD
>mastering software. And was stunned to discovered the following verbiage
>placed within the license agreement's "RESTRICTIONS" section.
>
>
>Content providers are using the digital rights management technology
>("DRM") contained in this Software to protect the integrity of their
>content ("Secure Content") so that their intellectual property,
>including copyright, in such content is not misappropriated. Owners of
>such Secure Content ("Secure Content Owners") may, from time to time,
>request Roxio or its suppliers to provide security related updates to
>the DRM components of the Software ("Security Updates") that may affect
>your ability to copy, display and/or play Secure Content through the
>Software or other applications that utilize the Software. You therefore
>agree that, if you elect to download a license from the Internet which
>enables your use of Secure Content, Roxio or its suppliers may, in
>conjunction with such license, also download onto your computer such
>Security Updates that a Secure Content Owner has requested that Roxio or
>its suppliers distribute. Roxio and its suppliers will not retrieve any
>personally identifiable information, or any other information, from your
>computer by downloading such Security Updates.
>
>Note that these statements are nestled in the midst of a longer
>paragraph containing the usual stuff about not reverse engineering the
>software, with copy not directly related to these statements preceding
>and following these statements. Almost as if Roxio hoped that this
>language would not be noticed.
>
>This is apparently is why many people are having problems copying audio
>CD's with the latest updates.
>
>David Crandon


George
>

[jim in ohio]

So hanging on to our old slow burners, not upgrading the firmware, and using an old version of backup software, may not be so dumb after all...

Jim

[Mustangt93]

Well, I'm certainly going to hang onto my Sony CRX140E...that's for sure...LOL. It's sure been a godsend.

[George]

Form of Notice for Phonorecords of Sound Recordings*
* Sound recordings are defined in the law as "works that result from the fixation of a series of musical, spoken, or other sounds, but not including the sounds accompanying a motion picture or other audiovisual work." Common examples include recordings of music, drama, or lectures. A sound recording is not the same as a phonorecord. A phonorecord is the physical object in which works of authorship are embodied. The word "phonorecord" includes cassette tapes, CDs, LPs, 45 r. p. m. disks, as well as other formats.

The notice for phonorecords embodying a sound recording should contain all the following three elements:

1. The symbol (the letter P in a circle); and

2. The year of first publication of the sound recording; and

3. The name of the owner of copyright in the sound recording, or an abbreviation by which the name can be recognized, or a generally known alternative designation of the owner. If the producer of the sound recording is named on the phonorecord label or container and if no other name appears in conjunction with the notice, the producer's name shall be considered a part of the notice.

Example: 2002 A. B. C. Records Inc.


http://www.copyright.gov/register/sound.html