This isn't fun anymore!

[Skybird74]

Originally Posted by rickyrey

As you all know Windows XP is discontinued. XP has a top of upgrading (at least that is what MS wants us to believe), as MTU posted on a thread before, Vista is here to stay and Microsoft aint gonna do nothing about this. Eventually as we replace our computers we will not find XP anywhere and Hoster will have functions that will not work with XP.

Hope that MTU will pass these troubled waters soon.

It is for this very reason, that MTU would not make 2 versions of Hoster (1for XP and 1for Vista) when asked by several people on this Forum. They knew that eventually everyone will have Vista, and Hoster has to work with it. Hence, continual fixes from 4.0 to 4.06 to make sure Hoster works with as many different computers as possible, whether using Vista or XP.

(Don't forget all the new features they added at the same time!)

YEA, MTU!!!!!!!!!!

Microsoft has made their decision, and WE have to live with it. Vista is here to stay whether we like it or not. It's no different than when we went from 98 to XP. (Well, there was ME in the middle, but it was still based on the 98OS). We all yelled for 2 years before Microsoft got XP right. Of course, here comes Vista to act more like XP in 2009 - wonder what problems that will cause

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by Skybird74

Microsoft has made their decision, and WE have to live with it. Vista is here to stay whether we like it or not. It's no different than when we went from 98 to XP. (Well, there was ME in the middle, but it was still based on the 98OS). We all yelled for 2 years before Microsoft got XP right. Of course, here comes Vista to act more like XP in 2009 - wonder what problems that will cause

Actually I think you are closer than you think. Windows 7 will be out next year. Vista may go the way of Windows ME. I can see a lot of enterprise IT just waiting for Windows 7 SP1 before they upgrade. On a side note, I got an add from a Vendor I do business with that has XP still for sale for $90. While I have been playing with Vista on an extra computer, I don't see myself using it on my show machine. I still have a full copy of XP that will tide me over nicely until Microsoft gets their stuff together.

[rickyrey]

I think that Vista is like the ME version, that really was trash. They do this so they can sell more OS.

[Robster]

4.06 works for me on Vista (and many others now )seems they have figured it out.

[WaltR]

Well so far so good with 4.06. I'll be doing a show tomorrow night. I have to admit, I am a little nervous but hopefully the bugs have been worked out.

This probably has been discussed somewhere along the line but I'll ask anyway. Has MTU ever considered offering products for Apple? There must be some reason I am not aware of. Just wondering.

[ddouglass]

Walt it would require a whole different program to do it. This would mean developing all of the code from the ground up as Mac and the processors for Mac use a totally different set of commands from the Intel processors. You would be talking about a couple hundred thousand dollors to develop it. I don't think the market is there to support that kind of commitment.
Glad to see that 4.06 is working for you. If you have any problems or glitches be sure to post them in here so we can either figure it out or MTU can find the bug if it isn't something fixable by tweaking.

[Robster]

I believe that you can run XP or vista on a mac using bootcamp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BootCamp

In fact i believe leopard the new OS for mac has Bootcamp as standard http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/bootcamp.html

EVERY new mac now also use Intel processors too.
http://www.apple.com/intel/

I have never used bootcamp its just what i have read so you might be able to run hoster on a new mac

[admin]

WaltR, you are not alone in being frustrated and afraid. You all know MTU's history of dedication to perfection, and you know Hoster WAS the premier product for years... AND is now again with 4.06 AND the Vista CHANGES that make that beast behave. The votes are coming in from earlier upgraders and I couldn't be happier to hear the "it works" messages.

We first released Hoster 4.00 on July 17th. Today, that was 98 days ago. We have done 6 new releases since July 17th... one of the fastest evolutions we have ever done. To say we are dedicated... doesn't begin to describe the urgency we have been working at. We have slaughtered our other product developments to focus on Hoster and get things working reliably again.

I am confident that with the positive feedback we are now getting on 4.06, and the changes we have identified that are REQUIRED to make Vista behave, Hoster is again stable for Vista. For those of you upgrading on XP, you ABSOLUTELY MUST make all Windows Upgrades using the CUSTOM selection, not EXPRESS. CUSTOM reviews YOUR computer, and suggests everything that YOUR computer needs to be upgraded with. It is EXTREMELY RARE that any customer has complained that making ALL the Windows Updates damaged their computer. Furthermore, I can say that when that happens, THEIR COMPUTER already had some problems (bad memory, low power supply capacity that craps out when Videos play, etc.) that were later identified, but never posted in the Forums.

One of our Beta Testers has a very small specialty portable "shoebox" computer with a very underpowered power supply. He upgraded ONLY the CPU chip, and everything went down the tubes! He reinserted the old CPU chip and everything ran OK again. The underpowered PS couldn't drive the new chip. That is ONLY ONE example of what we have heard of in all our Vista woes... that wasn't related to Vista!

Originally Posted by Skybird74

I've been using Vista all year & I've had some problems, but nothing like you are talking about. First of all, if you're going to upgrade, you should not Un-install first, but just upgrade. You should also SAVE all your downloads in your Download folder so you always have whatever you need at any given time. I have gone back & forth from 4.0x & back to 3.321, then up to 4.03, to 4.05 and now to 4.06 and have not had any trouble with registrations. You can't blame everything on MTU.

MTU had problems with 4.0 too, which is why they worked so hard to get it right - I belive 4.06 is the answer to everyone's problems!

And, when all else fails, as long as you have an older copy of Hoster still on your computer that worked for you, as a last resort you can also use Window System Restore, while you're waiting on new registration codes.

You go girl!

Yes, we are still including Hoster 3.40 which IS the identical byte for byte code as 3.321a, with the exception it uses the new 4.0 RegCode to run it. So, if you get in trouble, you can still return to 3.40 and continue the show.

If that won't work right, your computer has some other problem that has nothing to do with MTU and Hoster.... but we catch all the blame for junk computer problems too!!!

Originally Posted by ddouglass

Unfortunately a lot of the changes to Hoster have also involved all of us having to get our computers more up-to-date because of the increased demands by all of those nice features everyone has wanted. There is a sigificantly increased memory demand, video memory demand and more current versions of Internet Explorer, .net Framework and Windows Media Player just to name a few. Version 4 has been a massive change for them and a lot of code has had to be totally rewritten to accomidate all these additions. When you do that it takes a lot of time and not everything is going to be right from the beginning.

Dale is SOOOOO right. We made 153 changes from 3.321a to 4.06. That is MASSIVE, and there are LOTS of new features, and "platform upgrades" to support yet to come new features, such as Tempo change. We tried to do too much all at once, and... Microsoft through us a Vista Monkey Wrench (broken to boot) on top of everything that we never expected. When a Technology SHIFT happens, there is nothing we can do but conform to it.

The same thing happened when Plextor dis continued making good CDR drives with the CDG hardware decoder chip (they were the last to discontinue... Sony, Yamaha, HP, Teac... all discontinued years earlier). Without our scrambling to finish our 3 year project to develop the worlds best Software CDG Decoder (and we HAVE IT!!!), MTU would have gone out of business.

For those of you who believe your $69.99 upgrade payment would keep MTU in business, you are sorely mistaken. ALL the Hoster upgrades cumulative for 3 months hasn't paid for even a single month of MTU fixed and development expenses.

FACT: We've been MOSTLY on Hoster since August, 2007; FULL TIME including an external programmer consultant since Feb 2008. If we didn't support NEW sales on Vista (forced on you and us), we'd be out of business long before July 17's 4.00 release!

Originally Posted by ddouglass

A separate release for XP and Vista would not solve anything as you would still be waiting for more of those new features to be added because they would still be spending a greta deal of time getting the Vista version working right. Hoster currently recognizes whether you are using XP or Vista and uses code required for that OS, so within on setup you have both capabilities.

So true! The delays in the 4.0 development since Aug 2007 have been many. I have 40 years of PROFESSIONAL product developments expertise. I have a billion dollar product in my history (I coined the WYSIWYG acronym everyone uses today... in 1973), in 1973 we were the first in the world to load software from a Floppy Disc into a microcomputer... and MTU was the first in the world to develop a Digital Audio Workstation... we are the Godfather of the whole DAW industry. Many of the simple audio features you enjoy every day were pioneered with MTU "BLEEDING EDGE" technology in the early '70s. Only by God's grace... I know what I'm doing.

However, sometimes you bite off more than you expect. Then too, along comes the "UNK UNKs" (Unknown Unknowns) that blindside you. The Microsoft .NET changes we HAD TO conform to... and WMP11 that DOESN'T PLAY VIDEOS right on Vista (why our "NEW" video player failed)... and oh yes... VISTA being forced on the Universe!!

Yeah, we caught some curve balls this go round. Will I do it again? In a skinny-minute cause that's what I do... it's my God given talent.

I also should say I have never been so humiliated by the problems my clients... YOU HONORED FOLKS... have been put through in Hoster 4.0. Some nights I just went home and cried from the hurt I felt.

Our Beta Testing team has worked tirelessly day and night. We slammed them with 49 Beta Release Versions of 4.00 alone, and most of the others (4.1-4.6) had 5 or more Beta Versions too. We truly have burned out some who have dropped out of testing with us. Too keep up the testing quality (and quantity) I had to find some new helpers who have brought a wonderful new spirit back to our team. Since Aug '07, one Tester's husband died, and 2 now are fighting cancer and chemo treatment. What an HONOR it is to hear they have even downloaded our Beta Release to install, much less spend their precious brain power (what's left after the chemo) on serving us... and you. But then you all are not aware of their sacrifice. I am........................................

So you see, some of us working on Hoster 4.0 have made significant life sacrifices to gain the ground you are now standing on. To me... it is sacred ground.

Many early Users also have aided incredibly. Sometimes a small fact is "thrown out" in the Forums that is the key to what to fix. If no one downloaded, ran, failed and never reported back to us, we wouldn't be here today.

Our "early buyers" have also made significant sacrifice. At one point, for a week I raised the $69.99 to $170 for 2 reasons; 1) the support demands of "later upgraders" are much higher than early adopters, and 2) the sacrifice the early adopters made that helped up solve problems should have been compensated in some way and raising the price (so they got a discount) seemed the only way I could HONOR THEM! The outcry from the "late adopters" was too great for me to take... so with a heavy heart, I lowered the price back down to $69.99.

It is very hard being a Product Developer, but my drive has always been to do the very best I can. I'm not giving up... we have years of spec yet to develop.

Originally Posted by Robster

They seem to be going in the right direction with 4.06 ! i too had 4.03 then problems with 4.04 so much so i didnt even download 4.05 as i saw peeps with problems but last night i downloaded 4.06 and fingers crossed ..it looking that i can do a show with it with vista.

4.06 works for me on Vista (and many others now )seems they have figured it out.

Robster, thank you for this post. As I have said above, it is many users and our Beta Testers also, in addition to MTU staff who have tirelessly worked to identify how to make Vista work right.

In every product development, there is a point where the reported problems reach down into the "noise" level. That can only occur when the CLANGING CYMBOLIC bugs are all gone. The BIGGY problems swamp out the little nitty ones. We have been fixing nitty ones for 3 releases now, so we KNEW we were on the right track. Once we included our "MUST DO" Vista changes page when you are installing 4.06... info provided at the moment of "need to know"... we knew the Sun was about to rise on Hoster 4. You are confirming it has.

Originally Posted by rickyrey

I think that Vista is like the ME version, that really was trash. They do this so they can sell more OS.

Well said my friend, well said. ME was truly worth erasing from History. However, the magnitude of DAMAGE Vista has done to the world, and the software development community will NEVER be forgotten..... Microsoft has lost it's Gilded Crown. We all will be reviewing the options to deliver working "solutions" to our customers.

Originally Posted by WaltR

Well so far so good with 4.06. I'll be doing a show tomorrow night. I have to admit, I am a little nervous but hopefully the bugs have been worked out.

This probably has been discussed somewhere along the line but I'll ask anyway. Has MTU ever considered offering products for Apple? There must be some reason I am not aware of. Just wondering.

WaltR, thanks for not giving up on us! I am truly elated to hear your POSITIVE results. I pray we will regain your respect and confidence again with 4.06.

We have been working very hard in the background on Hoster 4.10, and Microstudio 4.10 also. We have some really great features coming out, but we had to finish some critical "under the hood" upgrades before we can add the new bells and whistles on our Hoster "vehicle". We too are excited to be moving forward again.

Apple.... we were a major Apple AUDIO vendor in 1977... shipping 500 Apple DACs a month... until I listened to criticism from Steve Jobs et al. We modified our hardware design based on their "demands" to get their approval... only to find the Apple was a piece of garbage, never to be expanded!!! MTU nearly folded from the rework of thousands of cards that were failing in Apple computers... that had Apple's required change. We reworked them BACK to our original design that DID work, and ignored Apple's shortcomings.

I have a VERY BAD TASTE in my history with Steve Jobs and Apple. IF... they continue to not screw their customers with high priced junk, and adopt Windows and support it faithfully, then... maybe we'll consider.

However, to support a DIFFERENT computer and OS... is more than any small business can sustain. I'm more interested in providing you a solution, and staying around to continue supporting you, than supporting Apple. Also, they still only have 5-6% of the computer market... no matter what you may be led to believe.

Pray Microsoft's next OS will return to simplicity and reason. They will never stop the hackers and viruses hitting those who don't use a Virus checker and Firewall such as Zonealarm. They tried with Vista, after doing everything wrong. Wall Street has punished them for it, and so will the marketplace of their "customers".

Let's all pray that Hoster 4.06 IS the answer, and returns your confidence to boldly run your shows to please YOUR customers! That's what HOSTer is all about anyway!

Have a GREAT day!!!!!!!

[madjim- with the Lord]

Originally Posted by admin

So you see, some of us working on Hoster 4.0 have made significant life sacrifices to gain the ground you are now standing on. To me... it is sacred ground.

This could not have been said any better and I hope that every member of the forum will keep it in mind, we are walking on sacred ground! I pray that the MTU forum is a place where folks can come and get solutions to their problems without having to read a bunch of bickering, whining, crying and complaining. (I am not refering to this thread.)

I personally am offended when somebidy comes on this forum and starts slamming MTU or their employees or their beta testers, for any reason. A long time Hoster user (or any user) has no right right to desicrate this holy ground. The MTU forum should be a professional place to get get reliable answers, not a boxing ring. (It's sad to say that I have three forum members on my ignore list because they can't post without saying or implying something negative about MTU.)

If we all have respect for the ground we walk on here on the MTU forum, there will be no reason for any neagative activity, IMHO.

R E S P E C T.......... find out what it means to me.

Thanks for keeping MTU's standards high!

Jim

P.S. Admin, if you feel this post will offend, please delete it. Slamming MTU on this forum ia an acticity that needs to be stoped in my opinion, it's very disrespecful. I appreciate you and all of the folks at MTU, thanks again.

[Skybird74]

[quote=madjim;84513]
If we all have respect for the ground we walk on here on the MTU forum, there will be no reason for any negative activity, IMHO.

R E S P E C T.......... find out what it means to me.
Thanks for keeping MTU's standards high!
Jim


Well said.