Hoster 3.317 upgrade

[searcherone]

Why is it asking me to connect to internet ? Previous two upgrades did not require this. I'm upgrading from 3.316. My unit is in a club with no internet access do I really have to remove the system and bring it home just to upgrade???

[ddouglass]

An internet connection will be require to install all of the MTU programs from the current versions.
You will notice that when you install now, you are asked to provide a computer name. This is to assist with registration resets and to provide additional security for the programs. Additionally you will probably need to Custom update your Windows operating system at the same time.
So, yes you will have to take the computer to be hooked to an internet connection.

[searcherone]

Then why does it state that an internet connection is not needed next to the update radio button??? Why not a short note explaining why it's needed?


Gee forcing everyone to re-register how microsoft like... and without explanaiton too!

[ddouglass]

I am not sure why they left that information off other than that one of the design team just spent some time in the hospital, so it may have been missed.

It is called protecting your products. Every software company is trying to protect what is rightfully theirs from being pirated and this is how MTU is looking to do it. Even before you had to use a floppy disc or a usb memory stick to install. This is just a little bit tighter. It is still better than some companies which require an added key of some kind.

This also helps MTU to identify which registration to unlock if you need it reset without having to search through thousands of accounts. Many people have ordered under one email address and then use another to request a reset. MTU searches for the email given in the request and can't find it because it isn't the right one. This takes up additional time to find out the right information.

[searcherone]

You seem to forget that under 3.315 if a valid hoster license was installed an update could be done WITHOUT the floppy or internet. I felt this was a step in the right direction. First, you can't get the upgrade unless you are a registered user (that's one level of protection), Second if it's pirated this won't stop anyone from using the product. Having been in the IT field for 30 years I've seen protection schemes come and go. They have never stopped piracy, only lost loyal customers to companies with similar products and less stringent update policies. You either trust your user base or you don't.

I agree that MTU should protect new installs from piracy, but updates requiring re-registry each time?? Too much like Microsoft... I'm sure if I look I can find a crack for MTU and bypass the license all together. So the next logical step in software protection is to do what microsoft is now doing with Vista and force registration verification every 180 days in the background without user consent or knowledge until one day they get an error message that they have 30 days to buy a new license.

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by searcherone

You seem to forget that under 3.315 if a valid hoster license was installed an update could be done WITHOUT the floppy or internet. I felt this was a step in the right direction. First, you can't get the upgrade unless you are a registered user (that's one level of protection), Second if it's pirated this won't stop anyone from using the product. Having been in the IT field for 30 years I've seen protection schemes come and go. They have never stopped piracy, only lost loyal customers to companies with similar products and less stringent update policies. You either trust your user base or you don't.

You are correct that protection schemes are not fool proof or at least not forever. Getting the upgrade does not require being a registered user anymore as the downloads are available on the website without going through the store account now. The deterent for the piracy now is anytime you install, the MTU server must verify your information before allowing the install to proceed. If you try to install on more computers than are allowed this will also stop the install, so trying to copy and pirate the program won't work.

Originally Posted by searcherone

I agree that MTU should protect new installs from piracy, but updates requiring re-registry each time??

If an update was just additional or changed files and not the whole program then I might agree with you, but since it is the full program included in every update then the same protection should apply.

Originally Posted by searcherone

Too much like Microsoft... I'm sure if I look I can find a crack for MTU and bypass the license all together. So the next logical step in software protection is to do what microsoft is now doing with Vista and force registration verification every 180 days in the background without user consent or knowledge until one day they get an error message that they have 30 days to buy a new license.

That type of verification of could still be coming. It could also make it easier for us to re-install for what ever reason because you wouldn't have to wait for MTU to reset your registration.

Just for FYI, I to have worked in IT for the last 40 years (recently retired) and have seen all the changes over the years. It isn't that protection schemes don't work but that the hackers and criminals eventually catch up. They are like the squirrels in my backyard. They eventually figure out how to get to the birdfeeder regardless of what I do to prevent it.
And just so there is no misconception, I do not work for or represent MTU. I am just a user like yourself.

[searcherone]

It isn't that protection schemes don't work but that the hackers and criminals eventually catch up. They are like the squirrels in my backyard. They eventually figure out how to get to the birdfeeder regardless of what I do to prevent it.

My point exactly... they don't stop the people they are intended to foil... (Hackers will never buy software. People that use hacked programs are also unlikely to buy software.) They only create inconvenience and confusion for the honest users...

It strikes me as odd that a program primarily designed for professionals, intended to be used away from home where INTERNET connections will be unlikely, would require and INTERNET connection to update.

To update I now have to unrack two main systems that are installed in bars bring them home reactivate the networking,(which is disabled when not in use, and services unloaded), connect to the INTERNET do a two minute update, disable then services again shut down networking, then drag them back to the bars and re-install and test them. About two hours of my time instead of five minutes, to make MTU feel better about a few possible hackers who will beat the protection anyway.

I feel protection schemes like this waste valuable limited development resources, while producing a function of limited life and value. These resources would be better spent improving the and expanding the product line.

If you've been in the business as long as you say them you remember companies like dbase, paradox, Harvard graphics, xywrite, wordstar, and hundreds of others that lost focus on producing the the best product, and wasted valuable development resources creating protection schemes in the belief that they were losing money or that they would make more money. End result they still got hacked and either went out of business or are no longer a major player.

[JoeyDVDZ]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

An internet connection will be require to install all of the MTU programs from the current versions.
You will notice that when you install now, you are asked to provide a computer name. This is to assist with registration resets and to provide additional security for the programs. Additionally you will probably need to Custom update your Windows operating system at the same time.
So, yes you will have to take the computer to be hooked to an internet connection.

So what do you do if there's no place to actually enter your computer name? I see the field, and it complains if I don't populate it, BUT THERE'S NO PLACE TO ACTUALLY TYPE MY COMPUTER NAME!!! ARGH! I've just about had my fill of Hoster. This is frustrating.

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by JoeyDVDZ

So what do you do if there's no place to actually enter your computer name? I see the field, and it complains if I don't populate it, BUT THERE'S NO PLACE TO ACTUALLY TYPE MY COMPUTER NAME!!! ARGH! I've just about had my fill of Hoster. This is frustrating.

Why not try putting this in a new thread instead of tacking it on one that has nothing to do with your problem? Additionally it would help if you could add some more information so your problem can be diagnosed.

[JoeyDVDZ]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

Why not try putting this in a new thread instead of tacking it on one that has nothing to do with your problem? Additionally it would help if you could add some more information so your problem can be diagnosed.

Well, Douglass, technically this is a thread related to the problem I described. You mentioned the "Computer Name" field, and my hoster install doesn't seem to give me a field for that. That made it applicable to my issue. Why are you so hostile to me?

[ddouglass]

Technically your problem has to do with an installer problem not the discussion on protection schemes. Yes I mentioned computer name but in relation to the protection scheme not missing.
I'm sorry you took my post as hostile, but all I was doing was stating the fact that you will get much faster help if you start a new thread and provide more information about your system, version of Windows,etc. The more information you give the easier it is for us to try to figure out your problem.

[Beavis]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

Technically your problem has to do with an installer problem not the discussion on protection schemes. Yes I mentioned computer name but in relation to the protection scheme not missing.
I'm sorry you took my post as hostile, but all I was doing was stating the fact that you will get much faster help if you start a new thread and provide more information about your system, version of Windows,etc. The more information you give the easier it is for us to try to figure out your problem.

Well Put Dale !

[George]

Originally Posted by JoeyDVDZ

Well, Douglass, technically this is a thread related to the problem I described. You mentioned the "Computer Name" field, and my hoster install doesn't seem to give me a field for that. That made it applicable to my issue. Why are you so hostile to me?

DDOUGLAS was in no way hostile to you, and gave you some very sound advice regarding posting a problem in a new thread.

This thread started out as a posting of an installation problem and wound up a lengthy philosophical discussion regarding the pros and cons of software protection methods, and their validity, or lack of same.

If you prefer to have your problem buried in the middle of all that, where it's chances of attracting attention are diminished, I guess that's your choice.

[admin]

Originally Posted by searcherone

It isn't that protection schemes don't work but that the hackers and criminals eventually catch up. They are like the squirrels in my backyard. They eventually figure out how to get to the birdfeeder regardless of what I do to prevent it.

My point exactly... they don't stop the people they are intended to foil... (Hackers will never buy software. People that use hacked programs are also unlikely to buy software.) They only create inconvenience and confusion for the honest users...

It strikes me as odd that a program primarily designed for professionals, intended to be used away from home where INTERNET connections will be unlikely, would require and INTERNET connection to update.

Sorry I didn't answer this until now. I was out of commission the end of 2007.

First, with 30 years in IT (which can mean just about anyone today ), I'm surprised you never had to deal with theft.

Second, MTU provides FREE support, and have since 1977... even to users who bought decades ago. They haven't aided our support costs at all, yet demand we be there to provide them free support forever. Makes no sense, but we still help them... for free.

Since 1977, MTU has an excellent reputation for providing logical, easy to use, massively tested, crash resistant products, plus support that WILL solve your problems.

In 1999, we had minimal protection on our products. The Internet was taking off, and all sorts of forums, BB's, and swap sites popped up. We had a SIGNIFICANT increase in our support demands, way beyond our sales. That was a new "reality" for us.

I searched the Internet for our products and found them on many download sites. I became expert at getting hosting companies to remove copyright infringement sites removing the free downloads. I spent 2-3 days every month tracking down illegal download sites and getting our codes and products off them, or got them shut down. That was the new reality for us to survive.

In 2001 we re-released our DNoise(tm) noise removal software with a demo that processed a 2 minute long file. Withing a month, our sales plummeted and never recovered. We found a French website that in first 30 days had over 40,000 downloads! We learned that to stay in business, we would either develop security that worked for everyone, or terminate and close the doors.

Unlike the companies you mention below, I don't quit. I find a solution and move forward. From 2000 until today (4/09) we have continuously perfected our security making it as transparent as possible for our honest customers. You don't need to have Internet connection to RUN our programs, only to install and register. MTU is still alive when some of our competitors have closed their doors due to being overwhelmed by theft.

We found that around 90% of honest users problems were because they never updated their Windows! Microsoft Software Development Tools REQUIRE their newest Windows Upgrades for compiled programs to run.

If you haven't done your Windows Upgrades, our software Upgrades WILL NOT RUN RELIABLY! That's why we require you to go on-line to install our software.

Originally Posted by searcherone

To update I now have to unrack two main systems that are installed in bars bring them home reactivate the networking,(which is disabled when not in use, and services unloaded), connect to the INTERNET do a two minute update, disable then services again shut down networking, then drag them back to the bars and re-install and test them. About two hours of my time instead of five minutes, to make MTU feel better about a few possible hackers who will beat the protection anyway.

If your shows run successfully with Hoster, keep running that version. YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO UPGRADE!

If you want our new features and upgrades, you need to go on-line.

Originally Posted by searcherone

I feel protection schemes like this waste valuable limited development resources, while producing a function of limited life and value. These resources would be better spent improving the and expanding the product line.

If you've been in the business as long as you say them you remember companies like dbase, paradox, Harvard graphics, xywrite, wordstar, and hundreds of others that lost focus on producing the the best product, and wasted valuable development resources creating protection schemes in the belief that they were losing money or that they would make more money. End result they still got hacked and either went out of business or are no longer a major player.

If we hadn't developed our security, you wouldn't have this Forum to post in. You're welcome to state your opinion, but reality is theft RUNS RAMPANT on the Internet today. Honest companies and users must conform to the "new rules" or perish.

Of these companies you mention, as I remember their products were overridden by newer technology or they were in a market that Microsoft or others did better marketing. Some refused to evolve and survive. MTU chose to survive.

[searcherone]

Thanks,

I appreciate your honest answer. You won long ago, I unracked my systems and connected to upgrade. It was a big pain, but now I'm thinking it was worth it... 4.08 was a great improvement !