Contests ... Good or Bad?

[danny_g]

Originally posted by CochrellGary
I don't like contests for the same reasons previously posted. But what do you do when the bar owner wants a

contest? Here's what my wife and I do to make the bar owner happy, the patrons happy and take the CONTEST

out of a karaoke contest.

We call it a BYOB Challenge, (Bring Your Own Buddies), "A singing show where talent doesn't count but your

buddies do."

Basically here's how it works.
Anyone can sign up during the evening, call it a "no talent" signup. The challenge is held during the last hour of the

gig, keeps everyone in the house. All enterants sing one song. When all the enterants have sung their song they

are all brought up front. One at a time their names are called out, and the audience responds with hoots, hollars,

screams, whistles, etc. The winner is picked by audience response.

The secret ingredient is a visual VU meter that the entire audience can see. We display it off of a laptop computer

into an AV projector onto a large screen, software by Radio Shack. The biggest number that shows up on the

meter determines the winner of the challenge. All personalities have been removed from the judging process. The

audience is now involved, they really get into seeing how high they can get the meter to read. The winner of the

challenge is the person who got more of his or her friends to attend and cheer. Everyone can see for themselves

who got the highest reading on the meter. "Talent doesn't count but your friends do." The bar awards dinner for two

at a local restaraunt and after six weeks the previous six winners vie for a home karaoke system. Then the process

starts all over again the following week.

Gary

sounds like a contest I would never compete in as all the winner needs to win is the biggest number of friends in the Audience.

[jahern]

Wouldn't somebody bringing their buddies be exactly what the Store is hoping for? If I were the establishment, I would encourage this kind of contest.

[SteveWalker]

jahern,

yes the bar wants more people to increase sales but if the contest is a joke you may piss alot of people off and in the "long run" lose more more than you gain.

[CochrellGary]

BYOB is NOT a contest, it's called a challenge purposly. The enterants are told up front "Talent doesn't count, your friends do" I tell them that if they have enough friends in the house they can beat (insert favorite artist). We are trying to put some FUN back into our karaoke show. To date, the best singer has never won any of the BYOB challenges. In fact the audience usually gets behind the poorest singer. The attendance has increased, not decreased and the bar owners love it (we are holding a BYOB at three locations). This idea may not work for everyone, it works for us. Just posting another approach.

Gary

[Flipeoke]

Steve,

Basically the way I do it is this: I have scoresheets which I write out and include all singers except the name of the singer I give the scoresheet to. Each singer has three empty boxes next to their name, for their three songs. Basically the sheets are blank and numbered, I just fill in the names. Each contest I have done I have changed the design slightly or printed on different color paper. This insures that people can't print up blanks beforehand. All rules are also printed on the sheet as well as "suggested scoring" methods. I say suggested methods as there are a couple of different scoring scales and a note that they are free to use whatever scoring method they want, including ones not listed. Like I said it's not perfect but it works. It all but rules out favoratism, by judges, KJs, staff,etc,

Another thing I have tried is the Scaryoke approach. I try to pick the most obscure songs, that I've never even heard of, and put a song for each of the singers into the hat. When they come up to sing their third song they pick a name from the hat. It works best if you get songs that nobody should know. It shows a different side of showmanship (showwomanship?) how well they can read lyrics, improvise a melody, follow with the music, and interact with the crowd, all at the same time. I've done this once with fairly good results. It was alot of fun.

Flip

[danny_g]

Originally posted by Flipeoke
Steve,

Basically the way I do it is this: I have scoresheets which I write out and include all singers except the name of the singer I give the scoresheet to. Each singer has three empty boxes next to their name, for their three songs. Basically the sheets are blank and numbered, I just fill in the names. Each contest I have done I have changed the design slightly or printed on different color paper. This insures that people can't print up blanks beforehand. All rules are also printed on the sheet as well as "suggested scoring" methods. I say suggested methods as there are a couple of different scoring scales and a note that they are free to use whatever scoring method they want, including ones not listed. Like I said it's not perfect but it works. It all but rules out favoratism, by judges, KJs, staff,etc,

Another thing I have tried is the Scaryoke approach. I try to pick the most obscure songs, that I've never even heard of, and put a song for each of the singers into the hat. When they come up to sing their third song they pick a name from the hat. It works best if you get songs that nobody should know. It shows a different side of showmanship (showwomanship?) how well they can read lyrics, improvise a melody, follow with the music, and interact with the crowd, all at the same time. I've done this once with fairly good results. It was alot of fun.

Flip

Skaryoke sounds like a great equalizer type of contest or challenge. I would definately compete in that kind of contest.
But I would have an unfair advantage with most shows I go to claim they have 10,000 songs but most of those song are duplicates so I believe they only have 4,000 to 5,000 songs and I have a liftime repretare of 3,000 songs that I know the melodies to. Can't say I'm perefect but I can carry a majority of them well enough to c

[gduns - with the Lord]

I have a different type of contest, I think mine is totaly fair. I Put all the request slips in a box and at the end of the night have a drawing. No one ever feels cheated, and everyone participates...... the more they sing the better the chance to win. Most of my giveaways come from the bar ($25.00 bar tab) of free cd's. I have never had a single complaint. I also dont believe in Judged contests. there is hardly ever fairness.

[SteveWalker]

gduns, you are right - it's always biased in some way and someone always get pissed.

[alanross]

I've just finished reading all the posts and it seems clear that the majority of KJs despise the thought of having to run a Karaoke Contest. I, too, despise them.

We are located in a resort area which relies almost entirely on summer tourism for its annual economic vitality. So in the off season, during the four weeks of January, one of the places we play, has insisted we run a Karaoke Contest. It does draw in more business for the bar all through January and the first part of February and then we're right back to normal, but by then we're only a few weeks away from a trickle of tourism resuming.

This past year was the eighth annual contest and it ran far smoother than in years prior because I changed my attitude.

Everything is what you put into it. I decided to embrace the contest this year and having made that decision, I focused on making it the best it could be. I developed a new scoring system for the judges which the bar manager has always appointed; I prepared a written explanation of how the judging was done and what the judges were grading on. I then made sure each judge was aware of the parameters of the judging and gave the contestants all the same information. These printouts made it clear to everyone what the judges were looking for, including the judges.

We play at this place seven nights a week and the contest is only held on Wednesday nights for four weeks of qualifying in January and the finalists all return the first week in February to compete for the grand prize. Every other night they can come in and practice the songs they want to sing for the qualifying and final rounds. Plus they can come to any of the dozen other shows we host at other places around town on any given night to practice. This seriously reduces the number of "just pop in to win people" because it's a month long event. It also increases business to all our shows because, as you know, Karaoke singers take it VERY seriously.

During each qualifying week, we chose the top three scoring vocalists as finalists so by the end of the fourth week we have 12 contestants for the finals. We also don't make the whole show about the contest. It is a subset of the Karaoke night. The first hour and a half are for anyone who wants to sing and for the contestants to warm up a bit. Then the contest runs for an hour, TOPS. Then we return to regular karaoke for everyone after the weekly prizes are awarded.

We follow the same format for the finals. In the south we call it the "y'all sing" time before the contest, then the finals, then back to "y'all sing".

I LOVE the idea of singers judging each other. Every year I hate hearing the moaning and complaining of the people who don't win, but if they judge each other, there's no one to blame but each other! Brilliant!

But the secret to the success this year was really my attitude. I gave it all I had. I was every bit as fun and lively as I am every other night of the week. Everyone knows how much I hate doing the contests and they all sympathize with me when I have to run one. I am friends with every one of our regulars and they know I have absolutely no love of the contests, so they spotted the change right away. Everyone's energy remained high, each contestant sang with all their worth, the judges paid stick attention to detail and you could see the contestants really try to give what they knew the judges were looking for.

At the end of the night, everyone felt like they had done their best performance ever and amazingly, all but one lady from out of town (who was terribly tone deaf and didn't understand why she didn't win) felt that the right person won based on the judging criteria.

The criteria I created was a score of 1-25 for Song Choice (How well the song suited the person's personality and voice); 1-25 for Stage Presence and 1-50 for Vocal Talent. Best possible score being 100. Three judges can each score up to the max for each category and the scores are all then added together for a max score of 300 per contestant. By having a wide range of 1-25 for scoring, the judges have more room to play with subtle differences between contestants. Scoring from 1-10 means that "Bill" and "Sue" could both get an 8, while using 1-25 means Bill could get a 20 and Sue a 22 because she was slightly better in a category.

Next year, however, I will apply these same criteria to the new judges (THE CONTESTANTS!) and I'm having them judge each other. Just brilliant! (That's probably why I didn't think of it - it's BRILLIANT!)

I hope this helps anyone who has to run a contest even against their recommendations to the owners/managers.

- Alan Ross
Nags Head, North Carolina

[DynamicMike]

I don't generally like contests.

For the bar owner, they usually advertise there is a contest starting at 9:30 or all the ringers know it starts at 9:30. So the ringers come in at 9:30, sing their song and drink a free glass of water until the vote for the ca$h. (And no, I don't own a bar)

The regulars who have sung a couple of songs (and have been spending some money) have to wait until the contest is over to get back to their enjoyment and the ringers leave the bar.

I was at a bar in Burbank and they did their contest as a Karaoke Suicide. You put your name in the hat if you wanted a chance. They only drew 5 names out and those 5 people didn't get to pick what song they were singing. An interesting twist, but the "ringers" don't like that too well.

I think a variation of that would be good. You put your name in one hat, and the song you want to sing in the other. If your name is selected, you come up and choose your song out of the other hat. You might get lucky and pull the song you want...or maybe you get stuck with a Blonde tune.

Just a thought...I'm not a KJ, just like to go have a good time.

[darrinlutz]

I see a lot of good post. We have done a sort of Name that Tune contest for small prizes, usually from the bar owner, free burger, drink, maybe a free ticket to one of his band dances.....

But I would like to relate a bad experience we saw......

One of our good patrons asked us to cheer her on at another karaoke show she would go to. We only run a show one nite a week at a different place, so we didn't mind obliging her....... Small show, about 6 singers as I remember, they each sang two songs. That took about an hour out of the singing rotation for everyone else. Two of the singers were the KJ, the other was his wife.....hmmmmm...... we didn't bother entering the contest, we were there for our friend. She sang very well, however, judging..... don't recall who came in first, but definately remember the KJ came in second.... needless to say , we haven't been back neither has our friend.

That just ain't right.....

Darrin
Karaoke Kraize

[Ken]

That was totally unprofessional of the KJ...what's the mentality of some of these people....it's almost like their ego's need constant "pumping', that's definitely the worst kj story that I've ever heard

[SteveWalker]

I just finished doing "Benningan's Idol" karaoke contest at six Benningan’s locations. It was organized by a couple ladies who own a travel agency so the top prize was a trip two to Cancun. I provided the music and the ladies registered the singers and picked the judges from the audience. We had fantastic singers on all three preliminary nights where one singer wins, then goes on to compete in the semi-finals and later the finals. Singers that don't win can come back to any of the other Benningan's to compete in the preliminaries.

Toward the end of a contest night, the two ladies would tally up the score and I have all singers doing a song like YMCA. As for judging, I always seem to know who is likely to win or at least I narrow it down to the top two. Funny thing is that my picks won only about half of the time. I noticed that the winners seemed to be the ones who came from show to show and were from these ladies home town. Perhaps the ladies felt more compassion for these people and decided to override the judge’s choice, not sure? I didn't want to ask them and remained neutral It's business as usual!

Steve

[Sweet Music 4 U]

Darren, Now that's karaoke competition bias at it's worst... sounds like a thing like I once saw in a New Mexico Casino karaoke competition once.

[swany]

We hate em too, but they draw more people, a few things I have run into. The host said the judging for the finals would be DJs from a local radio station. Did not show on finals night, one of the judges son won the top prize. Contest rule, can't sing the same song in finals as you qualified with. The blond with the nice butt took home $350 and she sang the same song. Her boyfriend did not place ( he was not off key she was and he was a better singer )
Now for the good one I was at, can't sing the same song as you qualify with, finals there is no monitor. The respected music company puts on the show pays for the prizes and judges the show. Rules no relatives or employees of the show can enter. Former contest winners may judge as a guest on qualifing nights (not finals), but can be disqualified for bias judging (leans way to one person that the other judges have not even considered.

[Sweet Music 4 U]

Swany,
The competition format you just discussed.. in your reply.. (the
second.. was what I did up until a year ago) When I stopped running competitions. It was a very successful format for us and many now do it because it was an extremely fair system to many.
It is a "marketability and honest talent" judging system and weeds out the bias in a nanosecond. It really shows how honest the show producers and the KJ really is.


SM2U

[swany]

Sweet Music 4 U, We try to do an honest show, lot of bars want to do contests and they want to judge them, we say no! Explain that we have to judge it, or we don't do it. The reason, we don't want some of the bad things that can go wrong. We also, make sure that owners and or relatives, employees of the bar know they can sing but, not in the contest. We have to set the standards for our own shows. Most people want fair contests, and some of the local talent we run across should be on star search or American idol. To all a very merry christmas, and prosperous new year. Remember to have fun.

[kevin7007]

Originally posted by kking
Jumpmaster:
I have always enjoyed hosting contests and I have always hated the judging part. After seeing different contests and methods for judging, the one I chose for my contests is as follows: the contestants judge each other. This is more work because it involves making forms for each contestant to use for judging. This is how it works. Each contestant is given a form with everyone's name on it except theirs. I have three categories listed, with scores from 1-5. I then announce contestants names and make sure the contestant/singers are judging the right person, when that person comes up to sing. After the contest I pick up forms and tally scores and announce the winner. Hope this helps. kking

we also like doing contest my wife and i love
your judging idea do you also use this method for the finals .
also we were thinking about the contestents paying a$1. fee each time they qualify to boost up the purse. what do you think ?
as for as some of the other kjs / djs thoughts i love to sing but i do it for fun these contest are for the ones who are very very good you may win you may lose most mature adults 21 and older relize this . and it is grrreat entertainment. YOU MAY HAVE THE NEXT BON JOVI OR CLINT BLACK AT YOUR SHOW dont laugh its happened. please reply .thanks

[Sweet Music 4 U]

It's was a flat purse with a straight up entry fee based upon the minimum number of paid entries.. paid out over the top 10 singers and then the remaining 20 of the top 30 recieve trophies. we used to draw in this series 150 singers. and in the finals we had 400 singers qualified. with the same singers soring under the same system. and different judges every time. 11 of the singers are now in the recording industry. 1 is now a well known karaoke & audio consultant in the southwest us.

[kevin7007]

super cool beans thats what it is all about , succeding and watching others do the same thanks for the reply