Title Print Out Don't Sort Properly

[Joe Nieves]

I'm trying to use the Hoster Print book option and didn't get the results I was expecting.

In many places on the print the letters was not sorted properly as per Image attached..

Joe...

[Skybird74]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieves

I'm trying to use the Hoster Print book option and didn't get the results I was expecting.

In many places on the print the letters was not sorted properly as per Image attached..

Joe...

Is it possible you have more than 1 version of that song in your database. The songbook only shows Book ID, so you can't tell what disk it came from.

[ddouglass]

That is because the words "The" and "A" are not used for sorting and not store at the beginning of a title in the header. Check the box up top for ",The/A at end and it will appear correct as in "Adventure, The"

[Joe Nieves]

The "A" sorts out properly, but the "The" in the Title don't, they are scattered all over the place in the printout which leave me to believe that it's a programing issue within Hoster then anything else.

If you have the option to print with the "A" & "The" at the beginning of the Title Why doen't it Work that way, and Why only the "A" are the ones that print and sort out properly..??

Joe...

[WaltR]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieves

The "A" sorts out properly, but the "The" in the Title don't, they are scattered all over the place in the printout which leave me to believe that it's a programing issue within Hoster then anything else.

If you have the option to print with the "A" & "The" at the beginning of the Title Why doen't it Work that way, and Why only the "A" are the ones that print and sort out properly..??

Joe...

By the image you attached, you have the wrong box checked if you want the "A and THE" to be at the end. I hope I am understanding what you are asking.

Walt

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

That is because the words "The" and "A" are not used for sorting...

As I said.... So regardless of whether you set those two words to show at the beginning of the title or at the end it will not effect the sort order of the titles.
The sorting is not done by the Songbook printing function. This is the way the Songs database sorts the listings, as shown in your Edit screen shot.

[WaltR]

Joe, I think I know what you are saying now. Here is the way it works and I believe it has pretty much worked this way in Hoster from the start.

If you check the box "A and The" in the beginning, it will list "A and The" first on the song line or artist but it will still keep it in the same alphabetical order. For example the song, "The Way We Were". Whether or not you have the box checked "A and The" in the beginning" or "A and The" at the end, the song will still fall in the same alphabetical order. In this case if you want the song to show up as "The Way We Were" as apposed to "Way We Were, The", it will still show up under the alphabetical order under "W". If this is what you are trying to say, I apologize. I always check the box to have "A and The" at the end. I suppose MTU could change it so in the example I used above, the song will show up in the alphabetical order using "T". In my case it isn't a issue because I don't use the beginning option. If I am correct in describing what you want I suppose you would have to put it in the wish list for changes and see if everyone is on the same page with you. I don't believe it is a program error but I believe it was done this way on purpose. Hope this helps.

Walt

[Joe Nieves]

I appreciate your careful understanding of what I am trying to convey, the whole problem I'm having with this logic is if an average person is looking for a song Title that begins with "The" I'm pretty confident they are not looking for it under "W" and that is straight common sense, If you read the "Billboards" Top 40 listing they don't list a Song Title with "The" at the End of the Song Title..

It's also much easier for customers to find Song Titles on their own and don't have to ask the same questions all THE TIME...

I decided to be logical from a customers point of view and print my books to make sense to them the customer, and make it easier on myself...

Another thing is that the option states clearly "The/A" At Start" which means at the beginning of the (Song Title) as in the dialog image I provided and the second option is ",The/A at end"..., The first option doesn't work properly, if I was to print my books that way, it will Be Useless, and will cause even more confusion and more questions, so this should be fixed so it could be useful, the way it is now it can't be used..

Thank you Walt
Joe...

[ddouglass]

Then go through and change all your titles in the Songs Database via the Edit tool to have "The" or "A" at the beginning of the Title instead of the end, because that is where the sort is performed for the Songbook Creator. That function does not have a way nor is it possible to insert this in the Songbook Creator.
I don't think the Billboard Top 40 listing is exactly a correct example since it isn't sorted by title.

[Skybird74]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieves

I appreciate your careful understanding of what I am trying to convey, the whole problem I'm having with this logic is if an average person is looking for a song Title that begins with "The" I'm pretty confident they are not looking for it under "W" and that is straight common sense, If you read the "Billboards" Top 40 listing they don't list a Song Title with "The" at the End of the Song Title..

It's also much easier for customers to find Song Titles on their own and don't have to ask the same questions all THE TIME...

I decided to be logical from a customers point of view and print my books to make sense to them the customer, and make it easier on myself...

Another thing is that the option states clearly "The/A" At Start" which means at the beginning of the (Song Title) as in the dialog image I provided and the second option is ",The/A at end"..., The first option doesn't work properly, if I was to print my books that way, it will Be Useless, and will cause even more confusion and more questions, so this should be fixed so it could be useful, the way it is now it can't be used..

Thank you Walt
Joe...

Joe, regarding "logic" - I have to say that I, personally, think you are making too much out of this. Can I please ask - how long you have been in this business? After 17+ years () I have discovered that there really is NO logic or rhyme or reason as to how Singers look up songs. Although I can't think of a specific example right now, there are definitely some songs that you will automatically think should be listed by "The" and sometimes you won't even consider "The" and will look up the song by the next word. You can only GUESS as to which way one of your customers will look for a song. Sooooooooooooo, you do the best you can at presenting a Songbook that will be appeal to the "masses". What I am trying to say... is that Hoster's way of listing songs in the Songbook DOES work for the majority of Singers. You will never make everyone happy!

One example is ....... some Singers look for specific songs under "Broadway", while others look for those same songs under "Show Tunes" that are not necessarily under any specific Artist.
Am I making any sense?

[admin]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

Then go through and change all your titles in the Songs Database via the Edit tool to have "The" or "A" at the beginning of the Title instead of the end, because that is where the sort is performed for the Songbook Creator. That function does not have a way nor is it possible to insert this in the Songbook Creator.
I don't think the Billboard Top 40 listing is exactly a correct example since it isn't sorted by title.

Joe, don't miss this answer Dale gave you. It allows you to put "The" at the start of the Title/Artist without a comma and it WILL appear alphabetically under "T". We've evolved the Songbook formatting over the years from 2002 and you are one of a handful of users to complain. Sorry, majority rules.

I think SkyBird74 hit the nail on the head. You'll never "please all the people all the time... nor will we".

[mindonstrike]

I tell my singers the books are alphabetized phonebook style, although people who've ever used a phonebook are getting harder to find

[billyo]

having the song titles on on diff. format to me is not a big deal, if a singer is looking for a particular song, i just type in a word of the title and i always find it, just like last night, someone wanted to sing Doctor, Doctor by Robert Palmer, in the song database it's titled " Bad Case Of Loving You"..i just typed in " Palmer " just like Skybird was saying if you're doing this for a while and the the # of times a song has been sang, you should be able to find it no matter how it was printed in the books..

[Lonman]

It's not a programming issue. It is purposely set up to do that. If you go to a library (Dewey Decimal System) to look for a book called "The Adventure", you look in "A" for adventure, not T for The. I have my books set up this way, not many people actually look for a song starting with THE. If you look it is still alphabetizing correctly by the actual sort word - in this case "adventure". If you do not want A & THE at the beginning, like stated, click The/A at end box instead on The/A at start.
Another example, if you go to a record store looking for The Scorpions, you look under S!
If you truly want THE to be the beginning word alphabetized under T, then when in the edit screen, change all of your songs that have THE at the end and edit it to be in the beginning. So in this case you will want
Adventure, The to be changed to The Adventure.
Now instead of sorting under A for adventure where it is supposed to be, it will sort under T with THE being the sort word - much more confusing IMO.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieves

I appreciate your careful understanding of what I am trying to convey, the whole problem I'm having with this logic is if an average person is looking for a song Title that begins with "The" I'm pretty confident they are not looking for it under "W" and that is straight common sense, If you read the "Billboards" Top 40 listing they don't list a Song Title with "The" at the End of the Song Title..

On that same thought, if you are looking to buy a song that starts with THE, you do not look for The as the search word

[ddouglass]

I believe this thread has run its course and the answer has been given by Admin. Therefore I am closing this thread.