Editing of Songs Database with Access and Saving to KMA Files

[ddouglass]

As those of you with Access have probably discovered, you can open Hoster's Songs.mdb database file and edit fields such as Title, Artist and DiscID to make corrections.

I urge you to cautiously use this as you would the Registry Editor. If you make a mistake, it cannot be undone, and may prevent Hoster ever finding or playing the changed files again.

Warning! Do not change the BookID, Path, RecordID, Type, or any fields to the right of the "Type" field. Changing these can prevent Hoster from playing these songs.

The Problem: If you use Access to edit your Songs Database, if you ever rebuild the Songs Database in Hoster, all your changes are thrown away. This is because the Rebuild operation reads each KMA file header for the data that is saved in the Songs Database.

The Answer: You need a copy of Microsoft Access installed. As you make edits in Access, write down the BookIDs for the records you edit. Then close Access and run Hoster. Go to the Tools menu and run the "Edit Songs" command. In the dialog (either Single or Multiple Selection), search for one BookID at a time that you edited. They will appear in the "found" list below. Highlight all of them (don't change anything) and click the Apply button. This updates the KMA header for each of those files so it matches your edits in the Songs Database.

Cautions when editing with Access:

1. When you open Songs.mdb in Access do not convert it to a newer version file. Leave it as an Access 97 database file or Hoster cannot use it.
   
   
2. If you do a Find and Replace in Access DO NOT select Replace All or you will change all KMA files. Only modify one set of files (ex: same DiscID) at a time with the Replace button.
   
   
3. Write down which BookIDs you changed to insure you can apply your changes in Hoster's Edit Songs dialog so they are permanent.

Comments or questions? Please post them in this thread.

Edited by Admin.

[mindonstrike]

Using Access to make changes to the kma headers requires some attention to detail so dont try it when you are rushed and MOST IMPORTANTLY - Back up all your kma's on an external HD just in case you make a major boo-boo.

Sam

[aznetbear]

Hoster should just add the fields to the current Edit Songs option under Tools Menu. Additional fields would be, Song Title, Artist, Manufacturer, allowing changes to be made single or multiple.

Just a suggestion

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by aznetbear

Hoster should just add the fields to the current Edit Songs option under Tools Menu. Additional fields would be, Song Title, Artist, Manufacturer, allowing changes to be made single or multiple.

Just a suggestion

Song Title and Artist are already there but only for single edit. Not for multiple.
Again anything that MTU does in this direction will be down the road and not in the near future as they are working on other items right now.

I have used this (Access) to change DiscID on 3 sets that were entered incorrectly when we imported them. And that is one thing I don't believe MTU would want in the Edit Songs dialog for everyone to be able to do.

[admin]

Originally Posted by aznetbear

Hoster should just add the fields to the current Edit Songs option under Tools Menu. Additional fields would be, Song Title, Artist, Manufacturer, allowing changes to be made single or multiple.

Just a suggestion

I'm not picking out anyone here. However, I AM PASSIONATE about this subject.

First... Aznetbear, Brand (Mfgr), Song Title, Artist, Genre, Language, Duet, Mux and "Hide in Songbook" fields ARE already in the Edit Songs dialog for you to change.

Edit DiscID: Our ONLY recommendation is to re-import the DiscIDs you messed up on. This method insures everyone - no matter how non-technical or technical they are - WILL safely correct their mistakes. The reason we DON'T add DiscID, is you MUST change all records (songs) with the same DiscID. If not, the songs originally from that DiscID are "fractured" across two numbers. However, some people WILL NOT change all the records for a DiscID. Yes we could add lots of error checks... if we had any free time and this was a problem for MANY users, but we don't and it's not. It HAS BEEN thoroughly thought out.

Edit BookID: The reason we don't allow changing BookIDs is it is very complex to do. Our current method is SAFE and INSURES everyone has a clean Songs Database. We have succeeded in "hiding the database" so non-technical users can enjoy this sophisticated technology, without getting frustrated. It has been extremely difficult, but our existing way is proven SAFE for everyone. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" definitely applies here!

Even Ddouglass's proposal here is, IMHO, risky at best. Keep in mind... Dale is one of our most technically competent and deeply respected Hoster users. The "safety net" is those who bought ACCESS are probably more technical and able to conceptualize what they are doing. However, even experts can do damage because this is a VERY COMPLEX issue. We have spent thousands of hours over the years to create and maintain BookIDs.

If we start getting Support Tickets to fix Songs Database, I'll delete this Thread. We'll answer those Tickets with "Reinstall all your KMA files from you Backup Drive and rebuild your Songs Database." No backup? Well, after you re-import everything be sure to back them up this time.

[ddouglass]

I thoroughly agree with Admin. This is not for those who are non-technically inclined.
You need to have a thorough understanding of how database files work and in particular how this one works within Hoster. You also need to have a good working knowledge of Access. Don't go out and buy Access and think you can instantly be able to use this.
If you don't know exactly what you are doing then as Admin said Re-importing is the best way to go to correct items that cannot be done in the Edit Songs Utility.

[Beavis]

probably better off deleting this thread, those who know how to do it dont need this thread for help

[trelynda]

Seriously! We can't just edit the songs in access? Hoster does not read the update db?

[mindonstrike]

Originally Posted by trelynda

Seriously! We can't just edit the songs in access? Hoster does not read the update db?

Since it can be complicated and easily screwed up I think MTU officially frowns on it so you would do so at your own risk.
You can PM me if you have questions.

Sam

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by trelynda

Seriously! We can't just edit the songs in access? Hoster does not read the update db?

Just editing the database in Access does not make the changes permanent. When you rebuild the database it rebuilds from what is in the KMA header. If you rebuild the database without doing the step to put the change into the KMA, then all changes you made in Access will be gone.
The fact that this a complicated procedure is why it isn't recommended by MTU. The best way and most sure way to do any changes is with the Edit Songs utility within Hoster.

[trelynda]

Editing songs in hoster is tedious at best. No multiple edit so you are limited to editing one song at a time. By exporting to excel or working in access you can edit a whole column case and be done with the touch of one edit.

Just very frustrating!

[billyo]

i agree with Dale, i do my editing on hoster , it's a long process doing it but it's safer,

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by trelynda

Editing songs in hoster is tedious at best. No multiple edit so you are limited to editing one song at a time. By exporting to excel or working in access you can edit a whole column case and be done with the touch of one edit.

Just very frustrating!

You are partially correct. There is a multiple selection, however it is currently limited to Language, Genre, Multiplex, etc., but not Title, Artist or Brand.
The next release will have the addition of those items plus possibly DiskID (still negotiating that with MTU) in the multiple selection.
You are correct that it can be a bit frustrating, however MTU tries to protect us from ourselves by not allowing us to make changes that can cause major problems and even crashes in Hoster.

[admin]

Originally Posted by trelynda

Editing songs in hoster is tedious at best. No multiple edit so you are limited to editing one song at a time. By exporting to excel or working in access you can edit a whole column case and be done with the touch of one edit.

Just very frustrating!

Hoster 4.11 (released earlier) allows changing Brand, Title and Artist in the Edit Songs "Select Multiple" view.

Try it... you'll like it.

[Joe Nieves]

I like to know on the mutiple edit section does it still force you to write Language and Genre fields like in 4.6 or can these fields be bypassed if not needed?

The reason I'm asking is because, if you're editing a large amount of files and don't need to edit the Language and Genre fields it becomes very time consuming in grouping these fields to write the changes one group at a time.

If the option to bypass these fiels where available then you can process the entire batch with no additional work one shot.

Is this possible now?

Thank You
Joe...

[ddouglass]

If you leave them blank then they won't be changed. That goes for the rest of the fields as well.

[Joe Nieves]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

If you leave them blank then they won't be changed. That goes for the rest of the fields as well.

Thanks for the reply, but that was not the case in Hoster 4.6 is this available in the current version?

Joe...

[Roy Dennis]

If you are using Hoster 4.11 it is as Dale answered.

Roy.

[Joe Nieves]

Originally Posted by Roy Dennis

If you are using Hoster 4.11 it is as Dale answered.

Roy.

This is why I asked the "question", because i'm not using 4.11 currently!!!!!

Joe....

[ddouglass]

Since this has been corrected in Hoster 4.10/4.11 I am closing this thread. It is now not necessary to perform these steps to achieve what what is needed.