Microeditor 5.5 / error 161

[rntech]

The file ****.sf has changed , if changed only by writing file flags project is unaffected.
Do you wish to delete all the segments in the project file that refer to this file.

options yes ,no or cancel.

Does anyone have any suggestions to eliminate this error.
The user is on a network and was all ok last week.
the Drive that Microstudio refers to is valid and is established via a login script.

I have even restored the files from backup from the last time it was ok.

Any Clues?

[MTUSUPPORT]

I have moved this to the Microeditor Forum, as this is where it should have been posted.

I have forgotten what this error means, as I have not used this program in over 2 years now.

I am sure there are other users in this forum that would beable to answer this for you, it should have also been in the Manual.

[geezer]

I have not used the program for at least the last 2 years myself, but I remember seeing this warning when I had moved a project file, or moved an .sf file, or had recorded more material into the file, or, I guess, changed or added flags, or opened a version of the project inadvertantly that was earlier (which might not have had, for instance, some groups combined into new sections of the default file, or new audio recorded to the default file).

In truth, the material is either there or it isn't, and the warning indicates that all might be fine, so I certainly would not let the program delete all segments from that file unless you know it is okay.....The program is not telling you that it cannot find the file, or that the file is damaged...just that it has changed. If you did not do anything to the file that actually deleted some portions of it, you should be fine. It is hard to delte portions of audio files in Medit unless you did something stupid like "compacting" the project- Is that the right term? Anyway, I'm talking about the command that deletes all portions of files that are not currently used in project segments. If you did this, you could be screwed on earlier versions.

This, I think, falls under the heading of careful file management and naming. Check your memory and make sure you know what you have done with the file in question, especially if it is the default file for the project.

[Rich LePage]

Geezer's notes seem right to me. I see that message all the time when files are moved from diff. drives, or when a project is moved to another computer from the one it was originally assembled on etc. Also see it often when I move projects to temp large external storage drives that connect via USB2 or F/wire to many systems, or restore from DVD or backup tape to drives or systems other than where the files were orig. located. We restore old projects often here to lift out chunks of them for repurposing or reworking into new versions/compilations etc. Older ones are archived on tape (DDS and also sometimes Travan carts), newer ones on data DVDs mostly.

Key thing - as Geezer noted -- is both file mgmt and of course not deleting all refs to segs from the file when it asks you. Hopefully (as he notes) the default file was not compacted or something could be missing. If what's missing is grouped material, try ungrouping it, the underlying stuff from the source files may still come back for you. (or may not....)

Another tip learned the hard way on older systems is that it is often easier to get a F/wire card into an older machine than to add USB2. Most USB cards have multiple ports and they try to steal all the IRQ's, machine hangs. Most of the lower end F/wire cards we've tried don't though, and work OK.
Most of the big external drives we run are in combo boxes that can run either USB 2 or F/wire to allow for connecting to a variety of machines. We do that with a few outboard DVD drives too that attach to the older systems when needed.

By the way, have found that the current version of Golden Hawk CDRWIN will work fine with cue files written using MicroCD (last few versions released). MicroCD always used licensed Golden Hawk DOS code underneath. The good news though is that the Golden Hawk program supports many of the newer burners that MicroCD does not. CDRWIN also supports the CD Text format, though have not done that much with that yet.

The program is not expensive and worthwhile to anyone using Medit and/or MicroCD. You can write your cue file (with the associated ACD, BAT and DOC files) plus your WAV image file with MicroCD, then just edit the cue file if you have moved things so the first line in it points to the WAV image file's location (any text editor like Notepad is fine) and burn using CDRWIN. Only the cue and WAV files wind up being actually used this way, though to burn with Micro CD you'd still need the other files it wrote (which are small).


Golden Hawk initially did not know if this idea would work, so we took the plunge of buying it and seems to work fine. I don't know if it works with the karaoke format, but Golden Hawk has some info about that on their web site.

[geezer]

That is good info to use if I ever try to resurrect an old CD project from the days of Microeditor....Both my MTU computers have been on a shelf in storage for a couple of years now, though.

I have more or less moved on completely to Wavelab for CD mastering, which contains CD text and all the features in MicroCD, plus the ability to use plugins and dithering.....Since Microeditor/MicroCD uses no dithering, this was initially very confusing to me until I did a huge amount of experimentation and came up with a dithering scheme that always works and always sounds better than converting 24bit files from Microeditor to MicroCD-generated CDs....It should be noted that none of the 20 or so combinations of dither I tried worked this way except the one I ended up choosing. Everything else reduced the stereo stage and "size" and depth of the recording in a way that was inferior to the MicroEditor bit-reduction math. The method I discovered keeps the size and frequency responcy better than Microeditor....The whole experimentation process was bizarre in the extreme, but ultimately fruitful.

[Rich LePage]

Also good info and thx for the update. Lately what I've been using when I want to use dither is to apply it to the final files using Waves plugs or using the native dither options inside Adobe Audition. Then I take the processed files back into M/edit and make the image file etc using that, then burn with CDRWIN, or MicroCD if the recorder on the burn machine is supported in it.

More often than not, I don't use dither, but sometimes do find it helpful for
projects that have a lot of fades at the ends of sections,etc. Like you, I found one basic dither combo that seems to work OK when I need it. With some stuff, dither def. seems to help.

Many of the long programs we do use a lot of CD tracks, usually 70 to 90 per CD, so the ability to add them (and move if necessary easily) by just putting in the flags is still a big plus there.

Ironically, though we use the newer burners for high speed refs, I still seem to get the best results for masters by doing them at 2x or 4x on the old Yamahas-- including the very first one (2x) bought from MTU a real long time ago-- which uses a caddy, rare these days. Also ironically, Win XP seems to have a very hard time working OK with those real old SCSI drives, so quite often I do final burns on an old, barebones Win98 system. Less seems to be more -- no surprise there. Those old burners don't support things like CD Text though -- and with the real old 2x Yamaha, that doesn't support 80 minute media either--goes nuts if you try it.

All that moving stuff around is what led me to look into the CDRWIN thing.

We have one of those expensive Clover QC systems and based on analysis using that, approach above still seems to produce least errors. A few of the newer drives, notably some Sony OEM units (which are actually Lite On, surprisingly) seem to dependably give few errors at higher speeds, but many others don't, though the error rates are fine for use as refs done high speed.

But, it's case by case. I have two identical model Sony OEM drives and one is very dependable while the other one isn't-- when swapped into same system.
Both run fine, but time and again, one produces higher error rates on discs than the other one. And that's at just about ANY speed, too. Many newer drives actually can do worse at very slow speeds than mid-range ones like about 8x. Each seems to have its own favorite sweet spot in the limited try and see testing I've done.

Also the Mitsui (now MAM-A) QC is just not what it used to be, I seem too often to have to reject burned masters for too many errors. Not willing to send them to a plant unless I can verify in 2 sep test passes that the error rates are very low. With the old burners especially, I run the gold media, seems to give best results and still have only ever had one master rejected by a plant for too many errors -- long ago, before we got the QC system.

Tried the Wavelab demo and liked it, might go with that in a few months. Adobe has a major new version of Audition, supposedly way different than the old Cool Edit Pro, so at some point will probably try both that and Wavelab and see which works better for typical needs here.