Legality issues!!

[MTUSUPPORT]

Here you go guys. This is a link to our FAQ's that has some information on the Legality: www.mtu.com/support/copyright-notes.htm

Sorry I have been buried alive under tons of work trying to get Hoster all done and bug free.

[Misschiff]

Wow, I've read all the posts and thought I'd add this to the collection of comments

Based on KAPA's website http://www.karaokeantipiracyagency.com/faq.shtml, here is the following except:

FAQ #10
Q: "I purchased a CDG and wish to send a copy of it to my friend overseas. Their hardware will not play the CDG format with USA specifications. May I make a video copy of the disc for my friend?"
A: "Yes, BUT the original CDG must accompany the video copy at a one to one ratio, and no further copies may be made."

It sounds to me like you CAN make a copy into a DIFFERENT format, as long as you have the original
____________________________________________

Here is another FAQ,


FAQ #03
Q: "May I use an archived copy of a CDG that I broke in my show?"
A: "No. No such archived copy should have been made in the first place. CDGs fall under the copyright definition of phonorecords NOT computer software. Under the definition, no duplications are permitted under any circumstances without express written permission of the copyright holder(s) which is the CDG manufacturer. (Misleading information had been posted on various sites earlier, but it has since been retracted.)"

For experienced DJs, you will also note that the AVLA licence (audio/video licensing association, Canada) does not include Karaoke material, only regular audio CDs (http://www.avla.ca )
____________________________________________________

Here is another website that I came across and has some interesting points to make as well
http://www.karaokeanonymous.com/legal.html
____________________________________________________

One last point I'd like to make is that the law is the law, no matter how you wish to interpret it to suite your ethical beliefs. If you have a serious Karaoke business, do you really want to jeopardize losing you equipment and battling through court? (not to mention the embarrasment at your gig of being caught with unauthorized disc copies). Your show would be shut down and you might even lose the gig!

Personally I agree with most of what was said in the previous posts regarding copyright and justifying using Hoster. I also believe that one must interpret "fair" and "reasonable" as it was intended. I am a singer/songwriter and musician, and I would certainly want credit and compensation for someone using my original material. It's kind of like cheating the government on your tax return -- you might get away with something you think is perfectly reasonable, but if you are caught, it will be THEIR interpretation of what's reasonable that determines whether it is legal or not!

On the bright side, it certainly appears that KAPA FAQ#10 indicates that reproducing the karaoke material in another/different audio format (such as what Hoster software does) is perfectly legal, so long as you keep the original disc.

Well, at least this is a step in the right direction for us all and makes using Hoster perfectly alright!

Regards,
Misschiff

P.S.
Thanks to S.P.I.N. LLC for his additional comments

[emwalter]

I am surprised that no one mentioned the obvious answer to the question of legality of copying.

You would need to look up the actual copyright law information, but it goes like this:

You are allowed to make one copy of your original software (and Karaoke is considered software) and cannot be used simultaneousl (or installed) on another machine. This is allowable under the personal use clause of the law, not sure if this includes businesses, most likely it does. You cannot sell, or give away this copy. If you sell the software, you are required to destroy (or, I suppose the law would be satisfied if you gave it to the purchaser of your software) the duplicate copy.

By the same token, you are allowed to do the same with the songs you own (different law, same principle). Even if it is written on the lable of the disk, that you are not allowed to copy it, it falls under the "Fair Use" clause, which in effect, states that you can copy it as long as you are not making a profit from it.

"Fair Use" is also where you are allowed to make a recording of a publicly broadcasted image, or music via video tape or audio tape (the audio tape was what was available at the time, dunno if it also applied to a digital copy, which in essence is a "perfect copy".)

Basically, it would be safe to say, that you ARE allowed to make a backup copy, as long as you own the original. In fact, it would be stupid not to make a backup copy, as long as you don't use the backup for anything other than a backup. If you have two KJ setups, and you only have one original of a disk, you cannont, by law, use the backup in your second system.

As far as the ASCAP and other groups that collect money for the PERORMANCE of songs, you [or the venue wherer you are working] ARE required to pay a Performance License for Public display.

I exclusively use copies of my CDG's, I only have one system, and my originals are put in a safe place, so that I can go back to them in case something happens.

One other thing to think about, I have quite a few discontinued CDG's. You cannot purchase some of them any more, and damaging them would make it difficult if not impossible to replace them. Think about that.

Well anyway, I guess I am done with my orator's pedestal, so I will relinquish it for now.

[emwalter]

Just thought I would interject something else. Remember, you do not actually own the software or the music, you are purchasing a LICENSE to use it. (Most fine prints for software and also music, inform you that you are licensed to use it). Using the copy, as long as it is the only copy being used at any one time should not be a factor, if you have the original, and are not using both the copy and the original to run more than one show. If you are using the original in one system, but also use the copies in yet another show, that would be a violation of your license, if you have two seperate systems, it would most likely be a stretch of the copyright laws to say "I am only using one at a time." If they were a complete system, you most likely could be popped on that.

[SteveWalker]

Rickyokie,

I think the question is:

1. If I own 300 CD's is it legal to compress all the songs to files stored on my PC?

2. If I am a DJ with 3000 files stored on my PC is it legal to actually play any of these songs through my speakers in public?

3. Who must be paid for it to be legal? How can I prove that all the songs on my PC are legal (i.e. I have the CD).

I'll be listening for all the legal brilliance of this forum and don't forget this issue is much bigger than mere karaoke.

Steve

[SteveWalker]

emwalter,

I agree. I too have a full set of Pioneer CDGs that cannot be replaced as Pioneer reshuffled the deck and many others that cannot be replaced for sure. We have every right to backup our CD's and the manufacturers and stores know it!

Steve

[SteveWalker]

You ARE innocent until proven guilty in the USA. Do you think I would hand my $10,000 setup over to a stranger because he says he's from KAPA, ASCAP or whoever... without a court order warrant?

Steve

[SteveWalker]

George and jim in ohio,

It's simple what I want people to know here. Is it legal to rip their CDG's to files on the PC and use them in public to do a karaoke show? Period. I don't want to rewrite the laws or the way law enforcement is done. That would be a separate thread or debate ok?

What we are talking about is directly relevant to whether it is legal to use Hoster (or similar software) in a karaoke show, right?

Steve

[SteveWalker]

But why haven't anyone at MTU voiced an opinion or pasted a site that gives us the answer??? Come on Bryan, jump in there... Jim

Maybe because it's "an area that's fraught with shades of grey".

Steve

[SteveWalker]

I think, therefore that he has answered your question by the very fact that he is marketing Hoster. That tells me that he believes it to be a morally correct product, within the framework of the law, and I cannot believe that he would jeopardize a lifetime of work creating MTU to market an illegal product.

I agree with 100%. Now, buy Hoster and rip your CDG's and go do your karaoke shows. Remember to only put files on your PC that are ripped from your original CDG's that you own and keep your CDG's at home in a safe place.

Steve

[SteveWalker]

S.P.I.N. LLC,

I agree with your post that we can use the PC to do a karaoke show if we have all the original CDG's for all the files on our PC. I haven't converted over to doing my show on a PC so I'm still using CDG's for my show.

You mentioned CAVS and legally purchasing and downloading karaoke files to the PC. If I do this I will never have a CDG to prove it was legally owned. Do you know how I can prove that my CAVS downloaded file were legally purchased?

Steve

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by George
Do they send you a confirmation email, since they're charging a credit card ?

George,
I have never purchased a file from CAVS but I do own PlayCDG PE. I prefer to have the CDG because of the quality and I can rip from it later in another format in the future if need be.

S.P.I.N. LLC,
Can you give us your take on downloading CAVS file and not having proof of where it came from?

Anybody else out there who has purchased/ downloaded a CAVS karaoke file care to comment?

Steve

[Alan Bingham]

Originally Posted by SteveWalker

George,
I have never purchased a file from CAVS but I do own PlayCDG PE. I prefer to have the CDG because of the quality and I can rip from it later in another format in the future if need be.

S.P.I.N. LLC,
Can you give us your take on downloading CAVS file and not having proof of where it came from?

Anybody else out there who has purchased/ downloaded a CAVS karaoke file care to comment?

Steve

I download them, and then use their software to put them back onto disk in CD+G format (but you have to use another companies software to burn the file to disk), I take them to shows and sing them. If a KJ were to tell me that he/she couldn't play my disk, I'd leave and go else where.

Here in town I don't know of a KJ that would not allow the playing of a "non-manafactured" disk.

[SteveWalker]

Alan,

The other problem with downloading karaoke files is as a KJ you do not have the physical CDG to prove ownership or that the files are legal. How would you prove the files are legal if you download them from CAVS?

Steve

[mlepine]

Quote by Alan Bingham:
I download them, and then use their software to put them back onto disk in CD+G format (but you have to use another companies software to burn the file to disk), I take them to shows and sing them. If a KJ were to tell me that he/she couldn't play my disk, I'd leave and go else where.

Perfect example why Microstudio should at least be able to burn from a bin file
It's not necessary to be able to play the bin file but having such a great cdg player that can burn cdg disk why not be able to burn a file done with any other software

The exclusif cdg format (extension) that MTU uses is excellent but it limits you to be in your own world when the reality is, any other brand uses the bin extension so why not be able to burn those file with Micro instead of having to get a software from ****

Regards

[kedmison]

Before I found MTU I had briefly (Few months)used GoldenHawk. They use a .bin file. If I remeber correctly I had no trouble using Micro Studio to copy some old compilations discs using MS.

Kelly

[George]

MLEPINE SAID:

The exclusif cdg format (extension) that MTU uses is excellent but it limits you to be in your own world when the reality is, any other brand uses the bin extension

Not saying that MTU should not recognize other formats, but to say that CDG is an MTU exclusive format that limits them to their own little world, when the REALITY is that CDG format still dominates probably 95% of the commercial manufacturered Karaoke discs is a statement that's just not so.

George

[admin]

Originally Posted by mlepine

Perfect example why Microstudio should at least be able to burn from a bin file
It's not necessary to be able to play the bin file but having such a great cdg player that can burn cdg disk why not be able to burn a file done with any other software

The exclusif cdg format (extension) that MTU uses is excellent but it limits you to be in your own world when the reality is, any other brand uses the bin extension so why not be able to burn those file with Micro instead of having to get a software from ****

Regards

Mike, read this thread where I address from an engineering AND user viewpoint why MTU does not support the .bin format for playing or importing individual files. As a matter of fact, we DO USE the .bin extension when we duplicate an entire disc image.

The thread above proves the .bin extension is NOT... I repeat... NOT a stable filename extension. If it ONLY was used for one type of format, we would support it in a heartbeat. However... it is not.

Why do other companies support it (in addition to GoldenHawk who first used it)? Because they don't provide free support. IMHO, it is impossible to support the .bin extension, which can have multiple NON-CDG format files all using the .bin extension.

Furthermore, you can rename your .bin files, created with non-MTU programs, to .cdg.... IF... you know they are CDG karaoke disc track files. Microstudio will use them correctly. It is your choice.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF MTU CUSTOMERS... only use our software. They don't use other software that create .bin files in various formats that confuses them. In fact, MANY of our customers first used CDRWIN and abandoned it because it was too complex to use and understand. Microstudio is easy, fast, clear,and above all... safe to use without confusion.

Now, please drop your complaint on this issue. It is your choice to rename your .bin files or not... or better still, only use Microstudio for your CDG file processing. Many of our other customers would be in deep trouble if they could get any .bin file, with no knowledge of what format it is in, and try to write or play it as a .cdg file.

[jim in ohio]

OK, I've read this thread from one end to the other, but no where do I see any comments from MTU.
What is MTU's position on the legality of Hoster, the KJ is no longer playing off discs, if the KAPA police want to see the discs, do you show them your hard drive?? It has no copywrite sticker on it.
How does KAPA know what discs were down loaded into the hard drive to prove piracy??

Could be I am looking at this all wrong, maybe we just need to dump some of our discs, and stick to those brands with no copywrite on them at all like:

Hot Line Karaoke
Backstage Karaoke
Top Tunes
Top Hits Monthly

I'm sure there are more out there but that's all I found in a quick look at my discs, there is not the first thing on those brands about a copywrite or that stupid note on some forbidding public performance like DKKaraoke.
Jim

[jim in ohio]

I just had some new CDG bricks delivered. There is a new propaganda paper in the boxes, and I will quote:

"CDGs fall under the copyright definition of phonorecords not computer software. Under the definition, no duplications are permitted under any circumstances without express writen permission of the copyright holder."

And this one I just love:

"You may not use an archived copy. KAPA is currently working with CDG manufacturers to try to develope an exchange or replacement program for KJs, provided the KJ can submit the orgional broken disc and the orgional receipt. The best protection is to buy two copies of a popular disc."

They are offering REWARDS up to $1000 for turning in a KJ for a long list of things one being:

"It is unlawful to store the orgional disc as a master while using Archive copies in shows. Orgionals cannot be stored as insurance against damaged, lost, or worn-out discs."

Can you guess what brand the bricks are???? I've never seen this flyer in any sound choice product before.

Jim

Where is the smilie face with his hand up with one finger raised in the air??