How to prevent employee theft by copying hard drive

[gduns - with the Lord]

I can get hoster to read the database. What the deal is when you switch users, the new user has to set up the database as to where it is read from.

you go into the tools\build songs batabases and set where the database is ie C:\Program Files\Micro Technology Unlimited\Hoster\Databases\

then you don't get the jetengine database error. I did this and got hoster to play as a limited user. You really need to see an it person and they can set you up to make this run the way you want it to.

I am used to using windows 2000 and know how to make it work, and I know for a fact you can make the directory where your songs reside where no one else can copy it. our It person told me today he does it all the time. Obvously he wouldnt tell me how, then I could undo it on my work computer.

sorry I couldnt be of more help.

[kedmison]

I'm with Mike...I read many of the psots, but I don't agree with all of them. I find them interesting and something very interesting. BUT, I don't won't my kma files where I can't get back into them. I buy all my disc from Ebay. I then compile them using Microstudio. From time to time I find better versions. I can then go in and change the version in Hoster. If it were locked up I couldn't do that. I realize I'm a one man outfit so I don't have to worry about someone stealing my songs. My 2 cents.

Kelly

ADMIN NOTE: First, we would NOT require everyone to encrypt their songs. It would be a VOLUNTARY act, by the person making the decision. I have posted on page 4 that we would probably make the ENCRYPTOR a BATCH processor file that is NOT called from within Hoster. It can be installed, encrypt the KMA files, then removed... IF... you wanted to encrypt. If not, don't do it.

[dlessnau]

gduns:

I see in the above posts that for some reason, others don't want a simple fix to avoid a rip off one's songs. What harm could it do?

However, I also don't want the files tied up in any way so I can't get into them. I am trying to fix it so OTHERS can't get in. How can some think am not a KJ, and might work for a disc manufacturer? Does not make sense. I'm not talking encrypting here, just limited access. Besides, from what I have read, if Hoster offers encrypting, it will be for the owner of the software to decide if they want to use it or not.

In any case, I am going to have a well recommended, computer tech see if he can fix the directory, since you know it can be done. I'll have him study your posts for guidelines on what to do, and post again later on his the success or failure.

I might have a legal contract made between me and my KJ, but I am thinking that might just give him the idea of how easy it is to copy the songs. Up to now, it probably never crossed his mind. So the contract could do more harm then good.

Thanks for your help.

[mikedomi]

dlessnau i think your a kj and i know what admin said about
it being a choice but i have all so seen things change in the 25th hour and i just want to make sure that it stays a choice and that it is not shoved down your thourth later and i think 99.9% of the people who own hoster want the choice

David
I had a karaoke owner ask me this
if there is a tab or a menu how do I stop my kJ from encrypting my songs when I send them out on a show you know sometimes people can do very mean things

you said

We had not addressed this specific need of honest businessmen who could get their songs ripped off by employees.

will some one please tell me the diff between some one ripping off hoster songs from the businessmen and disc being copied from the businessmen
i dont see them writting sound choice saying will you protect my disc from being copied

ok this is great i can go for protect (if)
now here are the ??????

1) what happens if there laptop is stolen and they have a back hard drive will the new copy of hoster they buy play the back up hard drive songs

2) you know people go in places they don't belong
what happens if a owner sends out a kJ to do a job and the kJ goes in hoster and hits the tab to encrypt the songs just to screw the owner of the company then what

3) how can you stop this from happing

4) knowing what I know about hoster the only way I think this should be in hoster is if in the install shield. it ask you at the time of install (do you want to install the encryption now) yes or no I think this would please most
I would go for this

but I don't think it should be anywhere in hosters menus or tools tab if you don't install it from the start you don't see it

and if you change your mind
then you just go to modify and install it that way you are safe .if you don't want to encrypt your songs

dont you think this would be a good way to do this
anyway thinking out load have a good day mike

[dlessnau]

Yes, I worry about those problems with encrypting. That is why I'm trying to fix it so only I can copy or modify my song file, with no encrypting involved.

One thing about copying a disc unauhorized and copying my song file, is that in about one hour, someone can have 750 songs. At least, someone trying to copy my discs, has a LOT of work to do.

Right now, I am going to upgrade to XP Pro and then figure out about how to set the write permissions, update the data base, and then I'll have my new expert make the user account only able to play songs and nothing else.

He said he can do it if I can get Hoster to open, so I'll post again when I succeed or fail.

I am a KJ. In my profile you can see my website.

[admin]

Originally posted by mikedombroski
David
I had a karaoke owner ask me this
if there is a tab or a menu how do I stop my kJ from encrypting my songs when I send them out on a show you know sometimes people can do very mean things

1) what happens if there laptop is stolen and they have a back hard drive will the new copy of hoster they buy play the back up hard drive songs

2) you know people go in places they don't belong
what happens if a owner sends out a kJ to do a job and the kJ goes in hoster and hits the tab to encrypt the songs just to screw the owner of the company then what

3) how can you stop this from happing

4) knowing what I know about hoster the only way I think this should be in hoster is if in the install shield. it ask you at the time of install (do you want to install the encryption now) yes or no I think this would please most
I would go for this

but I don't think it should be anywhere in hosters menus or tools tab if you don't install it from the start you don't see it

and if you change your mind then you just go to modify and install it that way you are safe .if you don't want to encrypt your songs

dont you think this would be a good way to do this
anyway thinking out load have a good day mike

NO MIKE, I DON'T THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA AT ALL

IF we encrypt songs at all, it will be a batch program that is NOT embedded in Hoster. It would NOT be accessable from Hoster, but run separately. It could easily be REMOVED from the computer after encrypting the songs, and stored on a CDROM for future use.

Of course, the owner would want to keep a hard drive with the unencrypted songs, and only send the encrypted songs out with the employee.

[dlessnau]

If one can easily keep a hard drive with unencrypted songs and easily add unencrypted songs to the back up, that is all I need to hear.

I was worried that when encrypting became available, I could not keep adding unencrypted songs to my back up. I would want to encrypt the songs on the lap top, but when adding new songs, be able to add them to my backup unencrypted.

Please tell me if the above is the way it is going to work, and I will stop what I am doing now and relax.

Just need a one word answer.

Yes

or

No

[admin]

Originally posted by dlessnau
If one can easily keep a hard drive with unencrypted songs and easily add unencrypted songs to the back up, that is all I need to hear.

Please tell me if the above is the way it is going to work, and I will stop what I am doing now and relax.

Just need a one word answer.

YES! IF we do it at all. There is a LOT of work for us to do this, so I need to see some payback on development. It is NOT what most users want, and Mike D. is a good example of this. Therefore, we have some serious thinking to do before I would take our valuable time to do this.

Right now, we are doing a major overhaul of Hoster in the following areas:

1. The Add HD Track and Add CD Track dialog boxes are gone. They are now embeded on the Playlist screen,with buttons to select which TYPE of file to add. The fields for the different TYPEs share the same location. The Add CD Track imports to a standard file, which remains on the drive if Hoster or the CPU crashes so you can open the Playlist Project (.hst file) and continue playing, with your CDG TYPE files still available. CDG TYPE files now key change also!

2. We are adding importing and playback of Audio CD tracks as a WMA file TYPE stored in a new wma.mdb database and songbook printing.

3. We are adding importing and playback of VCD and DVD tracks that can be added in the Playlist with any other TYPE of files.

4. We are adding PLAYBACK (no importing) of MP3 audio tracks to add in the Playlist with any other TYPE of files.

5. We are adding PLAYBACK (no importing) of MP3+G karaoke files to add in the Playlist with any other TYPE of files.

We are considering a PLAY ONLY version of Hoster, that has no import capability.

So, this encryption is at the bottom of our list at this time.

[dlessnau]

:

[mikedomi]

if your going to do this i would say to you to keep 2 back up hard drives with your unencrypted songs because
if you only have one and it dies you are out of luck
you will have to import all your songs over again

of coruse you will still have your encrypted songs but as you know they will only play on 1 computre and if you have more than one set of disc and you have two computres 1 encrypted hard drive will not play on both computres only on the one it was encrypted for if i understood what admin said

well i am done said what i had to say thats it back to more important things
all have a good day mike

[dlessnau]

Two back up harddrives is a good idea. Anyone who has imported their songs knows it takes a long time, and does not want to ever do it again.

The fantastic reward of being able to use a computer instead of discs to do a show is well worth the time to import, but once is enough.

[dlessnau]

I have installed XP Pro. Hoster is working OK but I get an error right after I boot up the computer.

It says:

RUNDLL
Error in irprops.cpl
Missing entry:
bluetoothauthenticationagent

I click OK, and Hoster works, but I sure wish I would not have to see that error everytime I boot up. Anyone know how to fix it?

User account still does not allow Hoster to work. gduns is going to try to help me by telephone this evening.

I wish I never started this all. Hard on the nerves.

[dlessnau]

I called MicoSoft free installation support and they fixed the problem by having me delete the bluetooth line from the registry. The support person did a nice job, but he was in India taking away some American's job.

[dlessnau]

Thanks to gduns (Gary) I have succeeding in making a user account for my employees to use that plays Hoster, but hides my song files so they can't be copied.

It was a long time figuring it out, but once it was explained to me how to do it, it was not hard.

Tomorrow, when I am rested, as I have been messing with this all day, I will take the time to write out and post a detailed explaination how to do this, for those of you that have a need to protect your files.

You will not have to wait for MTU to take the time to set up encrypting. This simple fix, protects your data.

Thank you, Gary for all your help. You meet the nicest people on this forum.

Dave

[admin]

Originally posted by mikedombroski
if your going to do this i would say to you to keep 2 back up hard drives with your unencrypted songs because
if you only have one and it dies you are out of luck
you will have to import all your songs over again

of coruse you will still have your encrypted songs but as you know they will only play on 1 computre and if you have more than one set of disc and you have two computres 1 encrypted hard drive will not play on both computres only on the one it was encrypted for if i understood what admin said

well i am done said what i had to say thats it back to more important things
all have a good day mike

Mike, too much assumptions here.

Songs would be encrypted with a HOSTER REGISTRATION CODE, which can now be installed on 2 computers, and with MTU's help, moved to other computers if an emergency arises.

[admin]

dlessnau, the real question is not what limitations you add to the computer.

The real question is...

Can someone take the hard drive from that limited computer, and copy the kma files from it on a different computer?

If you are using a USB drive, to move it to another computer is as easy as unplugging it and plugging it into the other computer, even with the power on.

After you have everything set up and "protected", remove the hard drive with your KMA files, plug it into another computer and try to copy the KMA files. If you can, there is NO PROTECTION from theft in your method.

However, if you CANNOT read the KMA files on the second computer, then by all means let us all know!

[dlessnau]

"After you have everything set up and "protected", remove the hard drive with your KMA files, plug it into another computer and try to copy the KMA files. If you can, there is NO PROTECTION from theft in your method. "

I don't know if removing the hard drive will allow someone to get my songs or not, but I can assure you, I have a lot more protection today then I had yesterday. However, in my case, I have my hands on that computer every day right after my KJ does a show. So he would have to be fast, skilled, and motivated to steal now. Before it was EASY. Now it is HARD.

I feel if someone takes the hard drive, it would still have the same protections on the files as the old one, but I am not an expert so I really dont' know.

You said you probably wouldn't do the encrypting anyhow, because it is too much work, and there is not much interest. So what I did is better than nothing. If you do the encrypting, and it is fool proof, I might go that route.

[MTUSUPPORT]

Note to Admin for another Option on this.

We could make Hoster have the ability to be set to come up automatically when the computer is turned on. What this means is the OS is running, but not all the programs are loaded. The only thing that the user would beable to get to was Hoster and only what is in Hoster.

BPM Professional has this ability. This would need to be an option in Hoster.

The only downfall to this as some will agree is that you can't get to any other part of the system, but what is available through Hoster.

[dlessnau]

As long as you can see the files, they can be copied, what value would it be if only Hoster was running? That is all that is needed to copy the songs.

One must set up a user account so you can see the files and change them, but the person booted up on the user account cannot see the files.

I am now working on the instuctions for those interested in GDUNS and my method of protecting their song file, and will post it. No charge.

[dlessnau]

Here is how you set up your computer to with a user account and an administrator account, in such a way, that the user cannot see the file with the songs in it, and thus, cannot copy them for his own use.

This will work on Windows 2000 and XP Pro for sure, and probably on XP Home.

Before you do all of this, make a restore point. This can be done with XP, not sure about 2000. If you goof something up, you can then go back to the restore point before you goofed. Saved me many times in the past.

You log on under your administrator account.

The first thing you do is go to the control panel and set up a limited user account with a password. That account will be for your employee to use.

Then click on My Computer and click on the drive where Hoster is located.

Then clisk on the MTU folder and the Hoster folder should show. Right click on that and select Sharing.

It will have information about sharing under the network section. If there is a box to click to allow sharing, check it. If not, run the Wizard to set up a network. You don’t have to be online. Just check the boxes that have to do with not online set up. Set up to network with a computer in another room. When it asks you what room, check the box to continue without any more set up regarding where the other room is or what ever.

Click finish and it sets up a network. You then can check the box to allow sharing this folder. Then go back to the Hoster folder and left click on it. Then right click on database and select sharing. Check the box to allow sharing.

Then go to the drive that has the Hoster song folder and right click on it, select sharing, and check the box to allow sharing.

Log out from the administrator account and log on to the user account and open Hoster. Click the Import tab, and go to Tools at the top. Select “Build Song Database”. In the list box at the top, click and delete the Folder that is alredy there. Its default name is "Songs". Then Add the Folders for it to look for your songs. Browse to do this and add each Folder to put their paths in the Build Songs Database List Box.

Then at the bottom you have to put the path to your data base. You browse here also and click so it makes the path which is C:\program files\ micro technology unlimited\hoster\databases

Then click the "Build Song Database" command.

At this point you can go to your playlist and select new, and add track from HD. Then play a song.

Close Hoster, and log off from the user account. Log on to your administrator account, and go to My computer. Get to the folder that has the songs in it. Right click on it and select sharing. Then go to the General Tab and check the box to hide the file. Then when it asks, select “this folder only”.

This last part, I can’t remember well, but I think while you are in that folder you go to Tools and Folder Options, and in the list select show hidden files.

You will be able to see the folder and file while in the administrator account, but the user can not see the file. What he cannot see, he cannot copy.

Log off the Administrator and log on as user. Play a song. Then take a look at the drive where the song folder is located, and you will not see it.

Don't forget to set up a password for the administrator account so only you can get in. WRITE DOWN the password in a safe place you will REMEMBER where it is... or you are in BIG TROUBLE!