Mtu, I Love Your Product But.......

[crazycarl]

I have been a long time Hoster user, My company between my brother and I own 3 Hoster programs, I also own Vogone, Microstudio, Karaoke Pro. I would guess about a $1000.00. Maybe not a lot of money, But to me alot. I read in the forums where ADMIN stated he wished he never supported zip files. Well then stop supporting them, leave one version for zip files, and make all your upgrades non-supportive of those.
Here is the most stressing part of my recent Hoster experiance!

CONS
1. The upgrades are full of bugs.
2. Hoster is falling behind, the other KJ programs on the market.
3. MTU too secretive about upgrades 4.0 for example (what is in it?)(when?)
MTU PROS
1. Best support staff in the country
2. Forum Members are so helpful and Knowledgeable.
3. Easiest program to use

Like every thing else in this wonderful world the big question always is. "What have you done for me lately?"
Sound Choice is losing Business because of a simple reason. A hit song (I gotta Have it song) is only a hit for a month or two. By the time it is released on a Sound Choice Disc, IT'S OLD MUSIC.

Mtu should in my humble opinion bite the bullet, get away from anything that is hampering them from being #1 in the karaoke business. ie... zip files.
Carl

[Roy Dennis]

I have never used a zip file myself anyway.

[ddouglass]

First let me say this. I am not an employee of MTU, but just a user like you. I am a Beta Tester for MTU and a long time user as well as having been an IT tech for many years.

CONS
1. How many program releases have you seen that are completely bug free. No matter how much testing and retesting a program is put through prior to release (Microsoft tested Vista for over a year) there will be things that get missed. No matter how much testing you do someone will find a problem.
2. You said yourself that Hoster is the easiest program to use. I don't agree that Hoster is falling behind. Those other programs may have some added features that Hoster doesn't currently have, but from what I have seen they are not all they are hyped up to be. One local KJ uses another program that has Key change built in, but he won't use it. Why because it is difficult to set and doesn't work well. That is definately not the case with Hoster. If the competition were so great then a lot more people would be changing over.
3. MTU used to put information on their website about up-coming releases. The competition was reading it too and getting the jump on MTU by putting out their product first with those added features. I can't say what is going in it, but I will tell you it will have a huge amount of new features. When? This year.

You said if zip files are a problem then leave them out. If you do you have just cut off a great many users. The companies that are beginning to use on-line purchasing and downloading are using zipped mp3+g files for the downloads. They are smaller and easier for the average user to download. Figuring out all the varied formats and determining how to handle them has been a real pain in the A** (sorry Admin) for them. However I think that because of all the time and effort having been expended to get it to work is why Admin made that statement. I think he was just venting a bit as we all need to do from time to time.

Please do not take this as personal Carl. I am only voicing my opinion as you are. You have been an MTU user a bit longer than I have and I respect that. I know you have seen a lot of changes to Hoster and all have been to make it the best on the market.

[crazycarl]

Roy , I don't use them. If this is such a big problem for MTU, then give the people, who use zip files, a choice of using songverter and convert these zip files to CDG or KMA. Then they can easily install the new songs to the Hoster format. If I knew how to, I would put this up to a vote to the community. But again, it is MTU. In the end,it is there decision. Unfortunetly, if I ever buy songverter it would be, to leave MTU. I, as a small bussiness owner, try to put the best product out. In my case, that Is the newest music, most music, best sound and best presentation.
Not being a Computer geek, or pretending to even know how to do this.
I would yank zip filing out of Hoster and Have "zip files" a stand alone product. I think it would eliminate tons of work for MTU staff. It seems to me the most recent significate upgrade to Hoster was SND. Most of the other upgrades are fixing problems in Hoster using Zip Files.
Remember I love Ya MTU
Carl

[crazycarl]

As my last post stated, Just make the zip file conversion a stand alone product, not incorporated in Hoster itself. Example you own "songverter" then when you buy your MP3+G's or other types of zip files, use songverter to convert these, then install into hoster. I do not see why file conversion should or has to be part of the Hoster Program, beyond the conversion to KMAs. So my thought is use songverter to convert this file to cdg or kmas and then install those files into your song data base.
Carl

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by crazycarl

As my last post stated, Just make the zip file conversion a stand alone product, not incorporated in Hoster itself. Example you own "songverter" then when you buy your MP3+G's or other types of zip files, use songverter to convert these, then install into hoster. I do not see why file conversion should or has to be part of the Hoster Program, beyond the conversion to KMAs. So my thought is use songverter to convert this file to cdg or kmas and then install those files into your song data base.
Carl

Its not file conversion that Hoster is doing, but importing. Songverter is for conversions. Hoster also can handle VCD, MP3+G and many other formats that karaoke songs come in. Besides the zip problem has already been solved and released so this really is a moot point.

[crazycarl]

Quote "Please do not take this as personal Carl. I am only voicing my opinion as you are. You have been an MTU user a bit longer than I have and I respect that. I know you have seen a lot of changes to Hoster and all have been to make it the best on the market."

I have been a customer and a user of MTU products since 12/2003. I believe I started out with Version 2.014. Don't get me wrong I Love Hoster and the other Products MTU puts Out. Dave and Brian should be on my XMAS list. But Hoster is very much the same as it was 4 years ago. Yes we have a delete button, we have a SND (but very primitive by todays standards.) But besides these features and adding more CD drive capibilities, and fixing bugs, what has changed. What changes can I show my customers. I am not trying to be critical, but with the exception these things and a skip button, & restart button. Tell me how hoster is better. I don't want to count the updates to hoster since i became a customer just too many.

You can go back into these forums, and the same Feature Requests are asked for year after year. Now I am being promised the key to Karaoke Heaven with version 4.0. Yet I am not told when I will get the key, and what is included in this gift. Four years as a customer and I cannot be trusted with even a hit of this paradice.
I am so glad that I didn't buy this newest upgrade, Can you even imagine how many man hours were lost trying to recover lost music library's and how much money and reputation was lost for canceling engagements. i have 2484 Karaoke Cd's if i didn't back them up (as some didn't) I would probably spend the better part of 6 months, reinstalling them. and lose 6 months of income
Crazy carl

[admin]

crazycarl, I'm listening to your input. We have been seriously considering removing ZIP from Hoster, and you're fueling that thinking.

Also, ZIP is another step that adds a slight delay, when we begin the "audio stream" moving towards playing. We are not beta testing Tempo change, improved Key change sound, and crossfading. These are all in the "audio stream". ZIP is an exception I don't want to spend time handling.

However, since you don't use ZIP files, you can't imagine how many do. We would be way behind the market if we didn't support ZIPs. As it is, our Hoster sales are growing monthly.

Let me give you a little history, which you already know, but haven't thought about it this way.

1. We were secure using Plextor drives. However, talking with Plex at the VP of New Products level, it was made known to us they were removing the hardware chip that did the CDG (RW lyrics/graphics codes) decoding. Without this, Microstudio would die... and Hoster soon after. ZIP support was added JUST IN CASE we didn't get our own software error correction fixed before there were no more Plextor drives with CDG decode. BTW: All other CD/DVD drive makers had long since removed the CDG decode. So why do I HATE ZIP? MANY ZIP users have bootleg files. They have no clue what OR WHO created them, what compression was used (Tricerasoft uses MAX that even WinZIP and Windows Media Player can't open - but Hoster 3.3 now can), and they get them on CDROM which imports as READ-ONLY that can't be deleted after played, and about 11 other errors that we have solved one customer at a time. If we could get the errant ZIP file, we could and did solve IT'S problem.

2. It took us 3 calendar years to perfect our software error decode. This was a VERY expensive and engineeringly complex endeavor. You know MTU strives to be the best in the world. It now, from our testing, gives you the best quality CDG lyrics of any product. That, carl, is a MEGA new feature.

3. Support drives that never before were usable for CDG importing or burning. MTU has sold and supported CDR drives since 1992. We FULLY understand the problems of supporting drives. We used to upgrade Microstudio and Hoster to support new drives about 4 times a year. However, the day after a new drive was available on the market, we started receiving DEMANDS (many were very nasty) to provide support for it. It was depressing. We tried two different ways to accomplish this task. We now identify all installed drives, auto-test them for CDG so you don't need to, and allow you to select WHICH CD/DVD drive you want to use (our Tools menu > CD/DVD Drives Default command). We have the most automated and flexible drive support on the market, and Microstudio's closest competitor is $80 versus $50 for ours.

3. Windows Vista... what can I say. Microsoft literally stopped selling XP for a few months. NO MTU products would run with Vista. If you want to consider panic, which I rarely do, that few months drove us to focus ONLY on being able to run with Vista. We got there, but in a non-Microsoft approved way; disable the User Access Control, which is part of their security. It worked though. With Hoster 3.320, we now believe we are fully complying with Microsoft's "Vista standards". It is the most illogical thing I have seen in my 40 years as President/Product Developer. Your Songs Database, Playlists, Error/Bad-file lists, KMA files are now spread in vastly different paths. It is nearly impossible for us to say how to backup your KMA files IF you put them in the Default Folder Vista DEMANDS you use. Put them on an external USB drive and be safe. PERIOD! We found one point Friday that is not up to "MTU Standards". When you are upgrading Hoster from any prior version, our programmer goofed. After the install, he is looking for Songs Database in the new Vista compliant folder, but YOURS is still under \Hoster\Databases where it has always been. So, when Hoster first comes up, all the Add Track fields (BookID, Brand, Search), are blank and you'll think MTU ***** you again. If you run Tools > Build Songs Database, which creates it in the new Vista compliant path, everything appears and runs normally. We will have 3.321 out Tomorrow, Lord willing, that will automatically detect an existing Songs.mdb in the old path.

4. Loosing KMA Files - How can 65,000 files disappear in a few seconds? The Windows NTSF (old FAT) table got messed up. How did Hoster do that? Beats us!!!!!!!!!! As part of our ZIP support, we must unzip the CDG and MP3 files before we can play them. Afterwards, we have to delete those unzipped files so the next ZIP can play. Well, Microsoft won't allow us to delete them quickly, and it turns out if the ZIP was loaded to the computer using a CDROM given to you by someone else (you do understand the implication don't you), the MP3 and CDG files are set by Windows to READ-ONLY and NO Application program can ever delete them. So how do we free them up after being unzipped? Delete the \Temp folder Windows default unzips them into. OK. Sounds reasonable. Little did we expect that Windows uses the \Temp folder, for example by Word, in a way that if the \Temp contents are deleted, whatever files that had been accessed there... the MASTER files... are auto-deleted by Windows. So how do 65,000 songs disappear? They were ALL ZIP FILES, and had all been unzipped to convert them to KMA format to index in our Songs Database. Never... NEVER in my 40 years of developing ~140 products have any of them EVER deleted a single user file, or even lost as much as a single edit! I can't say that ever again. This was the worst nightmare to ever hit MTU. We found and fixed the problem in 3.320.

5. The BIG new features that you refer to being requested year after year all require CORE ARCHITECTURE upgrades. You're not aware, but Microstudio 4 has our new SoundManager architecture upgrade in it. We have been "proving" this player architecture upgrade for months now, in preparation for Hoster 4 using it FREE OF BUGS... or as free as is humanly possible. FYI: This allows:

A. Cross-fade - This required playing 2 songs simultaneously, in sync. SoundManager allows up to 10 to play in sync; a very complex job to do, bordering on writing our own Audio Operating System.

B. Selectable Output port - Hoster 1, 2 and 3 are "hard wired" to the default port. Microstudio 4 now has selectable ports (part of the new SoundManager) and Hoster 4 will shortly.

C. Preview Play - Everyone "told" us they wanted 2 playlists. Why? So they could crossfade and preview play. Well, our Playlist is the heart of Hoster. It saves everything you do instantly so even with a computer crash you can be right back at the same point in your show within seconds to minutes (if reboot is required). If we created 2 playlists (like carts in other programs), suffice it to say it would double our work at many times. I tested the concept of adding Cross-fade into our Playlist and everyone screaming for 2-carts, said "that'll work". I tested the concept of adding Preview Play into the Add Track Search dialog box so you could find a song, and listen to the audio while the Playlist continued unimpeded. Everyone said "that'll work". So we are adding it.

D. Tempo Change - We almost have the audio code ready to go. Once it is, then we must make the Lyrics rendering code follow the speed-up and slow-down. The audio Tempo change has been under development since August. We are now getting to the "final bugs" point that every new feature must reach before we know we are "almost there". It's been real touch and go for half a year on this feature. MEGA... you bet!

E. Improve Key Change Quality - Only about 2-3% of Hoster users complain, but we know we can do better. With the new audio stream processor, it is expected to be better. To do Tempo change holding Pitch constant (i.e. not "Speed change"), requires Key changing in proportion to the Tempo change. Thus, these two features go hand in hand. Once Tempo quality is there, we'll address Key change quality, which should go quickly.

6. If you look at the Hoster Version Upgrades page, I believe you'll see 69 upgrades since 3.310. Of those, 47 are classed NEW, meaning 22 are bug repairs. NO OTHER Competitor adds new features to "bug repair" releases. They hold them all up and make you pay for them. Don't be fooled by their "lifetime free upgrades". They change the product every year and you must buy a NEW version next year to get anything new. Not MTU, and having been with us since 2003, you know first hand that I'm telling the truth. With rare exception, those 47 were requested by Hoster users. We've been trying to get to 4.0 for almost 2 years. Finally I said ENOUGH! We're now solidly on 4.0, between finding why KMA files disappear, moving to full Vista compatibility and a few other problems that shook our world.



So what's coming in Hoster 4.00x over the next year, we hope? Well, you'll have to wait a little while longer because I'm going to be late to Sunday School if I don't stop now. I'll return later today and post more.

[Beavis]

hey admin,

any idea what time frame you might release 4.0 ?

and so everyone doesnt get let down, maybe put up a number that the upgrade will be no less than $$$


i have a feeling that some people might think it will be a $39.99 upgrade

[crazycarl]

I try very hard to be a professional Karaoke host. And through the years I have seen the professionalism that you have. We are not unlike, we stive to present the best product to public. I rarely respond to many items in these forums, for many reasons. I know (as you do) that I am not a computer expert, and there are others here better to help. I don't know much about zip files, mp+3 and any other type of compressed files. I know karaoke!!!
I make very few new feature requests, because MTU has always been the best. But we have to remember that it is karaoke, just karaoke!!
Zip Files : We can convert all these files in songverter, transfer them to microstudio and burn them to a cdg disc to intall in Hoster. I guess it is fustrating to me some of the things added to, or requests to add, to complicate a wonderful program. Even if you created a button to make the worst singers sound Like ELVIS how would that help Karaoke.
From what my customers "See" i am using the same program I was years ago. I want to give them something new, something different.
I guess it boils down to this. And this is My opinion just mine.
The following features would help me put on a better show than all the features added in the recent past.
1. Scrolling name display for next singers
2. Fun Buttons ie... applause, Boos, Happy Birthday
3. Advertisment screens my company's name at top be able to type in messages so they show during breaks in songs.
4. Random song button.
5. Singers data would be real nice
These are some examples as to what would make Karaoke fun,
By they way thanks for not kicking me out of the MTU community (at least not yet)
You do good work, but I fear just maybe you have gotten away from the main idea, Karaoke
Crazycarl

[ddouglass]

Carl,
I think you have brought up some valid points. And I like the way your thinking about zips. You can save one step though by converting them to BIN and importing those directly from the hard drive rather than burning them to CD.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by crazycarl

The following features would help me put on a better show than all the features added in the recent past.
1. Scrolling name display for next singers
2. Fun Buttons ie... applause, Boos, Happy Birthday
3. Advertisment screens my company's name at top be able to type in messages so they show during breaks in songs.
4. Random song button.
5. Singers data would be real nice
These are some examples as to what would make Karaoke fun,
By they way thanks for not kicking me out of the MTU community (at least not yet)
You do good work, but I fear just maybe you have gotten away from the main idea, Karaoke
Crazycarl

These are allexcellent "NEW FEATURE" requests. Especially #1 and #4. I wonder if someone who knows how can move the above quoted post and this one to the "new features request" forum. Maybe MTU can work some of these in their "to do" list along with other SND eye-candy features on that list.

Poor programmers, we're really pounding the work to 'em now.

[admin]

Originally Posted by crazycarl

I make very few new feature requests, because MTU has always been the best. But we have to remember that it is karaoke, just karaoke!!

Zip Files : We can convert all these files in songverter, transfer them to microstudio and burn them to a cdg disc to intall in Hoster. I guess it is fustrating to me some of the things added to, or requests to add, to complicate a wonderful program. Even if you created a button to make the worst singers sound Like ELVIS how would that help Karaoke.

From what my customers "See" i am using the same program I was years ago. I want to give them something new, something different.

I guess it boils down to this. And this is My opinion just mine.
The following features would help me put on a better show than all the features added in the recent past.
1. Scrolling name display for next singers
2. Fun Buttons ie... applause, Boos, Happy Birthday
3. Advertisment screens my company's name at top be able to type in messages so they show during breaks in songs.
4. Random song button.
5. Singers data would be real nice
These are some examples as to what would make Karaoke fun,
By they way thanks for not kicking me out of the MTU community (at least not yet). You do good work, but I fear just maybe you have gotten away from the main idea, Karaoke

Carl, I'd never kick you out! It's the really obnoxious people who are in here to only bash MTU month after month after month. They get degrees of warnings to clean up, ask/answer questions or get out. If they don't I help them exit.

1. Scrolling name display for next singers - We also have been asked for MORE singers in the list (which is expandable now), different colors, point size, etc. AND... time until each song is expected to start. So... adding a scrolling single line display would hamper the above requests, IMHO.

2. Fun Buttons ie... applause, Boos, Happy Birthday - Assigning hot keys/buttons to pre-assigned audio files is in our spec for 2+ years now. Just isn't enough demand in the Forums to offset the BIG features many are asking for.

3. Advertisment screens - my company's name at top be able to type in messages so they show during breaks in songs - That's a totally new screen, or do we add it above the SND? When would you trigger it? Carl, the VAST majority of Hoster users are asking for features to get MORE singers on stage per hour. This request is directly in opposition to this. Go post this ONE (#3) feature in the Hoster New Features Forum and see who else votes for it. I currently perceive there are so few who would want this that it would truly waste our time. However, if a number of votes come in, I'll change that belief.

4. Random song button - We could add this relatively easily. Where do you want us to put the "Random" titled button since our screen is rather packed now? Do you want us to force you to use Hoster at full screen? Again, this needs to be in the New Feat Forum to get others comments/critiques.

5. Singers data would be real nice - What data? What are you looking for? We could do nothing but gather and present data for the next years. In fact, there was a company well financed to do just that. They went out of business years ago. Again, post this one item in a separate New Features Forum thread and see who else adds to it. Tell enough about your desired data so others can understand what you want. I don't. There is already one Thread there about singer statistics (I think), so please find it and see if you should be posting under that Thread. We will have the ability to acquire statistics. I don't plan on generating pretty graphics and charts. We can export as an excel or word format doc and let you do the formatting This is NOT Karaoke... but then MANY of the features we have added over the years don't seem to fit your def of Karaoke either. We have a very diverse customer base that we try to keep everyone happy. Posting your new feature request in that forum will get your ideas notices by others... and MTU.

Great ideas. Just put them in the NFR Forum and expand on each so it is very clear what you are asking for. Include how to execute the function (Tools menu command, button, etc.) and any related data such as how to assign audio files to "Fun" buttons or hot keys. If you don't suggest something, others (if they post) may expand on it. I'll ask the same questions there if you don't think them through.

These are all good ideas that just need to be finished suggesting YOUR request.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by admin

4. Random song button - We could add this relatively easily. Where do you want us to put the "Random" titled button since our screen is rather packed now? Do you want us to force you to use Hoster at full screen? Again, this needs to be in the New Feat Forum to get others comments/critiques.

I wonder if this could be added somewhere in one of the drop down menu's, if no room for a button, or even a hotkey(s), such as "alt RS" for generate Random Song.

[admin]

I'm closing this Thread to force everyone interested to go post new features you want into the Hoster New Features Forum. OK?

[crazycarl]

Admin you closed my last post, and that is understandable. I know you read them and responded. But i fear you have not heard. I do not mean to critize, but hoster as the product I need is not progressing. As far back as I can trace "Hot Buttons was requested in 2005 by Digital Party, Singer data Base also in 2005 in these NFR. I think you have (had) the best product on the market. Your support staff excellant(brian). Forum members the smartest most helpful anywhere in the world.

But in my world, where I make my living doing karaoke, I am falling behind the competition, Oh I have more music than them, and I have the newest songs. But I do not have the bells and whistles. I can't make the show personal to them.

After reading your responce to my posts, Hot Buttons are still 2+ years away. That will be 2010 or 2011 5 to 6 years after Digital Party requested them. Maybe I am mistaken but from what I read in your responce. As I understand you, you are saying that: Mine and My Customers karaoke experince will not be enhanced to much degree in the next 2-3 years. I am so sorry to hear that, I have been a loyal customer but i may have to go elsewhere. I do love your products, but I feel like time Tom Brady in the super bowl. My Offensive line is tired. And Hoster you are my offensive line.

Thank You Doug
Thank You so much Brian
Fellow Hosterers You guys are just wonderful and sometimes funny(rarely)
Crazycarl

[Beavis]

i agree with carl.

i have always wanted the advertizing feature. i think i remember asking for it in 2002.


plus i like all your other requests. im not sure if there is no call for the upgrades here because everyone is just sitting and waiting for new stuff to be added.


admin, i know all the additions are complicated, but is there a way to have another program run along side of hoster with some of the new features ?????

[crazycarl]

You know through the years, I would read the NFR. but never bothered to second the Idea. So a lot of this just might be my fault. When ever I saw that ADMIN had responded to a post, I thought enouh said. I whish I had been more active.
Carl

[ddouglass]

There is a program that you can run side by side with Hoster that will do those bells and whistles you are asking for. It is called Messageoke.
Personally I would rather see Hoster be the best and easiest karaoke program to use for actually running the show rather than have MTU spend all their time programming in the bells and whistles. Yes Bryant I agree with you that the SND needs so background options instead of just black, but beyond that let me have the best quality sound and video outputs.

[crazycarl]

I owned a copy of messageoke, then I changed computers (upgraded) and they never responded to over a dozen emails and numerous phone messages asking they send me a workable key number.