MTU Key Changer

[Musicman51]

Now, don't get me wrong please, i'm not complaining. I have been using MTU products since 2004. I could have purchased anything i liked, but i stuck with MTU, because they are the best product out there. But to date, they still don't seem to have perfected their key changer software. I have the full versions of Keyrite, Microstudio, KJ Pro Home Producer, Hoster. The key changer in them all leave much to be desired. Even that cheap import cheesey company Voco Pro, has a good key changer. My triple drawer JVC, just has a fantastic key changer. But MTU, just doesn't cut it in the key control department. Why won't they spend more time on this to make it better? Please don't blame it on any of my sound cards, it is the same way no matter what computer i had through the years. what say you all?

[Roy Dennis]

I nearly always use the one on my mixer.

[ddouglass]

Electronic Key Change will always be better than software controlled Key Change. Since I don't have the tuned ear of a musician I can't tell that it is off. If I remember it is supposed to be set for half steps. Is this not the case and if not can you tell how far off it is? MTU would need to know in order to even think about correcting it.

[Musicman51]

Douglass, i've been to Ft Benning GA visiting my daughter in the US Army, sorry i haven't replied sooner. It's not in the fact that the key controller is out of pitch. It' in the quality of the key changer. When i flat or sharp the changer, the quality of the music is in a different ballgame. It sounds much like the vibrato on a Fender Twin Amp..lol Like someone turned on the tremelo. The guys at MTU and i have discussed this before. And i didn't get an answer i liked, and they didn't seem to be that concerned with my opinion. But compared to even cheap disck players, the MTU key rite, and Hoster, aren't even close.

Electronic Key Change will always be better than software controlled Key Change.

What do you base this conclusion on? I've never heard this before. If thats the case, MTU never told me. Perhaps i shouldn't ask anymore then. That would answer my question. Thanks George

[ddouglass]

Hardware electronic components designed and set for specific pitch change will not cause harmonics (which are what cause the vibrato effect) or if they do a filter can be added to remove it.
As an explanation harmonic frequencies tend to be slightly phase shifted (out of phase with the primary signal) and this is what causes the vibrato/echo. I may have a tin ear, but I do know electronics.
When you are trying to change a pitch by altering the frequency fed to a standard sound card designed for a wide range of frequencies then there is no way to filter out those harmonics completely. This is why I say Electronic Key Change will always be better.
Currently I wouldn't expect them to look at this at this time as they are trying to get a new release out to fix and stablize 4.06 even more first. Maybe in the future they can take another look at it.

[ddouglass]

That would be your opinion since I have never used their program I wouldn't know whether theirs is totally clean or not. Iwould suspect though that their built in equalizer would be helping with that.
I am not saying it couldn't be better in Hoster but I have never had any complaints from any of my customers about it being that bad.

[Musicman51]

I am not saying it couldn't be better in Hoster but I have never had any complaints from any of my customers about it being that bad.

Well all i can relate to is my experience with sound, and key controllers i have used. I have been a musician for going on 35 years now. And i can only say that when i lower, or raise a key in the Hoster software. It changes the quality of the music. Seems one would have to be almost tone deaf not to hear the wobble, and loss of fidelity of sound.

I sure would hate to have to start plugging my computer out, through my key controller, then to my mixer. I just love the quality, and stereo seperation my Hoster system gives me. I have this one sweet little gal, who has a garbled voice like a coal miner. I think it's from years of smoking. And i have to lower everything she sings. It's a pain, but she's a paying customer to. Anyway, i can live with it, but my comment was, the MTU key controller as i said, "Leaves Much To Be Desired". Not complaining, just making an observation. {Oh, the little gal with the hoarse low voice, keeps trying to date me}

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

I have this one sweet little gal, who has a garbled voice like a coal miner. I think it's from years of smoking. And i have to lower everything she sings. It's a pain, but she's a paying customer to. Anyway, i can live with it, but my comment was, the MTU key controller as i said, "Leaves Much To Be Desired". Not complaining, just making an observation. {Oh, the little gal with the hoarse low voice, keeps trying to date me}

In reference to this, I too have noticed the issue but not quite the way you describe. I notice that it doesn't sound right with certain songs and certain key changes. One song may have a harmonic problem with minus 2 but sounds fine with minus 3. Another may be just the opposite. I, too, have ruined my voice after 30 years of smoking. The songs I used to sing on stage 5 nights a week seem to be just a step out of range for me now. The good news is, I am quite good at Barry White songs now

[Singsation]

The live Keychanger has always been poor no matter what computer i have used with a slight warble sound when used, When writing a file using keywrite i have never had a problem with the new sound file. My current Hp computer has realtec onboard sound and the software has it's own karaoke function with key changer. I use this if I take my small system out and works fine. For my bigger venues i use a seperate nikkodo keychanger. It would be nice to have it all in one package though.

[Musicman51]

Key control in a software package must not be an exact science. I just wish MTU would spend a little more time on the issue is all. Seems some kj seldom use a key changer, why, who knows. Maybe they just figure everyone should sing the song as it's written, and ignore the red faces on some struggling to try and make pitch. I couldn't get by a night without my key controller. If i see some of my regulars struggling to sing in key, then next time, i suggest they let me drop it down...could you imagine some of my older singers trying to sing a Vince Gill song without a key change? i cringe at the thought....

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

could you imagine some of my older singers trying to sing a Vince Gill song without a key change? i cringe at the thought....

I can't imagine any older singers would try it knowing that they couldn't sing in Vince's pitch anyway.

[Musicman51]

bryant....you'd be surprised what some people think {try} to sing....

[billyo]

i too had a problem with the key changer,when i used to do karaoke (i kinda stop doing it for now) but like other people said, i seldom used it, what i usually do was if the singer wanted a lower key version of a song, i usually select on an SAV brand( SAV seems to have a low key version of any song)..and i had a singer that will tell me to either +/- key..since she's been singing the same songs all the time...

[Roy Dennis]

Have you read the comments on"that other software's" Forum?

As one of the two mentioned above I'll enter my disclaimer now. I said " I nearly always use the one on my mixer".

The reason I said this is not because I think there is any thing wrong with it, but because I find it easier to press a button on my mixer than navigating with the keypad. If I had some one who always sang the same song with a key change then I would use the facility in the singers data base.

To me it is the same with the volume control, I would rather use the volume Knob on my mixer but if others want it it's there you are not forced to use it.

[Musicman51]

Everyone has to preface their comments with a disclaimer that their not complaining and that they love the software, then they state the "problem(s)."

I don't have to say or not say anything, within forum rules. When i say i'm not complaining i mean it. When i say i think the MTU software is the best out there, i also mean that as well. I have tried other systems, i found MTU to be the best for my personal needs. There are things i don't like about MTU, and there are things i don't like about other competitors software as well. If i had something to say, one way or the other, i would say it, within forum rules, like i'm doing right now. Perhaps you could contribute to the thread in a more positive way. And it's not productive to try and second guess MTU, or what they may take away from a thread. I enjoy this forum, it's educational, has solved some of my tech situations, and is a place to get straight answers about MTU products. If you only visit here "from time to time" may i suggest leaving something of a positive nature while you're here? If i misunderstood your post, then i apologize in advance.

[JNS02]

I use key change all the time at my shows, I have never had anyone complain about the way it sounds. I have never heard it sound bad either. Went fron running shows with a JVC 3 tray player to Hoster. All key changes have stayed the same for all singers. If it was down 1 in player, Its down 1 in Hoster. Also, I would never use another program for my shows. Tried others in the past and been to shows that use other programs. KJ seems to struggle along a few times a night. (One I can think of doesn't even load song into line up until you are standing up there waiting) But this was about Key change. Sorry