Short Clip

[goonie227]

When Importing and playing a singers disc I noticed tonight that Host3.312 is playing just a short clip of the next song on the singers disc at the end of the song it's supposed to play not a problem just wondered if anyone else has noticed this.

[bobcox- with the Lord]

no i havent. and i have imported quite a few from singers disc. Bob

[admin]

Originally Posted by goonie227

When Importing and playing a singers disc I noticed tonight that Host3.312 is playing just a short clip of the next song on the singers disc at the end of the song it's supposed to play not a problem just wondered if anyone else has noticed this.

What track were you adding from a Singer's Disc? Was it the last or next to last on the disc?

[dclark]

Originally Posted by admin

What track were you adding from a Singer's Disc? Was it the last or next to last on the disc?

Also, what is the setting for the hardware error correction (HWEC) for this drive? "Yes" or "No"?

[goonie227]

Originally Posted by admin

What track were you adding from a Singer's Disc? Was it the last or next to last on the disc?

I Duplicated it tonight at home on the first fifth and eighth track
from three different discs. HWEC is on.

[goonie227]

this glitch sounds alot like what is going on in microstudio could it be the same

[bill moore]

I was helping a user/m8 that upgraded to 3.312 a week or so ago
the clip or pop you are hearing is sound left over from last song

what we did was to capture the sound/pop/glitch that we heard and ran it in the sound board we repeated the glitch in a loop so we could make out what it was and in fact it was audio

The way we heard it the most was to stop a song after the audio started playing and hit stop. then go to the next song in the list when you started the next song is were you would hear the sound

now here is where this should help you narrow it down
if you let the songs play all the way out you will not hear this pop/sound

but if you stop the song before the audio is done and go to the next song
when you hit the play button you will here this sound

I do not know how mtu wrote the code but it looks like the buffer is not being unloaded all the way (or its trying to load it self twice)

lets say there is a meg of audio left in the buffer on the song you just stop
and say the next song you are playing is only 1.2 megs
and let's say the buffer is 3 megs are both in the buffer at the same time???

does the buffer do a dump after the stop button is hit or does the buffer
get dump when you hit the play for the next

he did not have this before the upgrade and I think he was using I think he was using 3.30X cant recall

just thought i would pass this on hope it helps

p.s the song's in ??? are kma's from the hard drive not from the cdrom

by the way since there is player code for each format could it be from the changing between players ??? just asking

[dclark]

Bill,

Thank you for the very informative post! With all of that information, there should most definitely be a way to zero in on the problem. It sounds very much like it has to do with not initializing buffers or buffer pointers after a song is prematurely stopped.

Anything else that anyone wants to add to this will be welcomed, too. Thanks again.

[admin]

Bill Moore, thank you for your in depth details.

Our programmers have been cranking our major upgrades to Vogone 3, Microstudio 3, Hoster 3.313 and working on Hoster 4 (for next year). My brain... and I'm sure our Beta Testers also... is in awe at how fast we have be cranking out the new code and fixing reported problems. Its been a real trip this month!

From your analysis, it does appear that a change made in Microstudio and ported over to the Hoster code didn't get handled properly under the "stop early" condition. I've documented this to be worked on first thing next Monday for 3.313 Beta 3.

Great job helping us do our jobs!

[bill moore]

Sorry i forgot one thing

It all so shows its nasty head more so if the audio starts before the video.

It seames that a lot of early sunfly sf001 to sf100 have a lot of songs that have audio starting before video.

You might want to take a look at how hoster is handling the fact that audio is starting then the video starts.

BUT ITS NOT JUST SUNFLY !!!!

[bill moore]

Just wondering if you guys found anything on the audio/buffer/stop button
problem ????

[dclark]

Originally Posted by bill moore

It all so shows its nasty head more so if the audio starts before the video.

It seames that a lot of early sunfly sf001 to sf100 have a lot of songs that have audio starting before video.

You might want to take a look at how hoster is handling the fact that audio is starting then the video starts.

Bill,

Would you be so kind as to zip up one or two of these sunfly songs and attach it/them here? We are having no luck recreating this, and we believe it would be helpful to have an example of a KMA that causes this. Thanks!

[bill moore]

check your pm

[bill moore]

Star Discs 1 - 72 were manufactured to start the Audio prior to the Graphics
starting.
All Star Discs 1 - 72 are imported from CD and, therefore logged in the
Songs.MDB as a CDCDG Import.
Upon starting PLAY of any Star Disc 1 - 72 CDCDG Imported Trk, the Audio
begins, then stops, then starts over from the beginning.

It's as if Hoster's CDCDG Player sees the Audio only...starts the
Audio...then, when the Graphics queue in, Hoster's CDCDG Player references
both, Audio and Graphics, and plays the Song, from the beginning, as if that
was the actual starting point.

After the Audio has started the second time, it continues, in SYNC with the
Graphics, to the end of the song.

All tested Star Disc 1 - 72 CDCDG Imported Trks play correctly in Hoster
v3.301

[gd123]

Current v3.313 still has music starting and stopping at the beginning of the songs on Star Discs 1-72 imported via CD. (CDCDG)

[ddouglass]

Did you try re-importing them with 3.313?

[bill moore]

if hoster is messing up from one version to the next !!!

so are you saying that we should have to import 40.000 songs I think not !!!!

the new version of hoster what ever version it is should work with all prior
version's of hoster kma's' we should not have to re import any song that where done on a previous version

and to answer your ???? not we did not try re importing the songs
what we did do was break down the kma so we could check the wma
which is clean as a bell

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by bill moore

if hoster is messing up from one version to the next !!!

so are you saying that we should have to import 40.000 songs I think not !!!!

the new version of hoster what ever version it is should work with all prior
version's of hoster kma's' we should not have to re import any song that where done on a previous version

and to answer your ???? not we did not try re importing the songs
what we did do was break down the kma so we could check the wma
which is clean as a bell

No, I was not saying you have to re-import 40,000 songs. I don't believe there are 40,000 songs on 72 Star disc in the first place. It was only a suggestion to try on one of the discs to see if that corrected it. I am sorry if I upset you with my suggestion. The only reason I said that was "IF" you had imported them with 3.311 or 3.312 then the glitch may have been recorded since there were problems not discovered until after release. This often happens with software programs due to the complexity of the code.

[bill moore]

I just get tired of people looking for the quick fix (or trying to blame it on the hardware this is not the case its the software)

and we have found sound choice and other brands that do the same thing

the fact is that hoster has in the past had this problem it seems that every 2 or 3 version this pops up some report it others don't

I am just trying to help my m8 out here who has hoster and there are two other kj's that are just across the state line that he knows who has had this same problem

I have heard this on 4 diff system's now I am sure sooner or later they will find this we have sent them the kma's

even if re importing did fix the problem that is not the answer
you should not have to re import just because they changed the player code !!!
this is a good company they will find this little bugger I am sure of it

[admin]

Originally Posted by bill moore

I just get tired of people looking for the quick fix (or trying to blame it on the hardware this is not the case its the software)

Bill, you are one user and we have thousands of users. When only one or two are reporting a problem, and we cannot reproduce it, there's about a 99.99% chance it IS the system installation, however you want to call the system.

We tested the files you sent from every angle we could think of, including what you listed above. We never hear any audio out of line. We did notice that all your songs we received have the audio starting immediately. We even stopped them, played other songs with silence to show up any buffer that may be remaining from the prior song, but there was no audio at the beginning in the silent area. We then again played one of your files and heard nothing left over from the prior file with silence at the start (we played into it until audio began before stopping).

Originally Posted by bill moore

and we have found sound choice and other brands that do the same thing

OK, that tends to confirm it is a system problem. Again, we are trying to diagnose a problem that appears to only be on a few systems... your mate's included. This is the hardest type of problem to identify the cause, and it takes very close working together. You are getting angry with us which will prevent any of us from helping you. Calm down and work with us.

Frst also understand, this problem will not be solved quickly. Expect a delay and you won't be disappoited.

Originally Posted by bill moore

the fact is that hoster has in the past had this problem it seems that every 2 or 3 version this pops up some report it others don't

I can't say we agree. We never had this "reported" before 3.312.

Originally Posted by bill moore

I am just trying to help my m8 out here who has hoster and there are two other kj's that are just across the state line that he knows who has had this same problem

Noted...thanks for reporting that.

Originally Posted by bill moore

I have heard this on 4 diff system's now I am sure sooner or later they will find this we have sent them the kma's

Our tests didn't show up the problem. If it had, you'd have a fix the same day to test out.

Originally Posted by bill moore

even if re importing did fix the problem that is not the answer you should not have to re import just because they changed the player code !!!

Agreed, and no one meant to imply that. Ddouglass suggested this to gd123 just to see if it could be a problem with files imported with 3.312. A problem like that did happen in a prior version, and the audio "damage" was in the file, not the player. That's all he's implying here.

Originally Posted by bill moore

this is a good company they will find this little bugger I am sure of it

Thank you... you are right. We try very hard. As soon as we can create the problem, we can fix it. So far, we can't so we have to wait for more input from others who might reveal the "key" to what is happening. We've got critical deadlines on other projects. We'll address this Hoster problem again in January.

I sincerely thank you for the excellent details you have provided. I couldn't ask for better. Regretfully, we can't create the problem yet.