Binders for songbooks...

[Chad Slater]

Not sure if this is the appropriate place to put this thread but I had a question about songbooks. I usually spend a decent amount of money on large binders only to find out that after a few months the rings begin to come apart, thus causing the book to do the same. Has anyone found binders that are better than most or any other way of containing their books? Just thought I'd ask. Hope everyone is having a great week.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Chad Slater

Not sure if this is the appropriate place to put this thread but I had a question about songbooks. I usually spend a decent amount of money on large binders only to find out that after a few months the rings begin to come apart, thus causing the book to do the same. Has anyone found binders that are better than most or any other way of containing their books? Just thought I'd ask. Hope everyone is having a great week.

I have the same problem too. Everything is made so cheap today, and I get the "Heavy Duty" kind. I use scotch tape around the open gaps on the rings that gap on me. This extends the useful life about another 6 or 8 months.

[Lonman]

You can also get that stuff you put on wire and heat it to shrink. Downside is needing to cut it off to reinsert new pages, otherwise it works well. Big problem I see with binders is people use too small or too big for the amount of pages and the binders start to stuff out from too many pages or get bent up from not enough pages.. An O ring binder is going to hold about 1/3rd less than a D ring binder as well. I've tried every kind, none are made to withstand nightly use. The last ones i've tried have actually been in use almost a year. Only replaced 4 out of 12.
http://www.staples.com/1-1-2-inch-Ca...product_614325
This year I actually have to upgrade to a 2" binder.

I also have my books available for phone apps & online so those that bring in laptops or tablets can view at anytime which is helping to reduce the need for books - would like to add a kiosk station as well, then books won't be as necessary as once was, although there are always those who like to sit & look at a book (i'm one) so I will always offer those too - just won't need as many. Also looking into cheap tablets that can do not much more than be an e-reader that I can offer instead of books entirely.

[Skybird74]

Originally Posted by Chad Slater

Not sure if this is the appropriate place to put this thread but I had a question about songbooks. I usually spend a decent amount of money on large binders only to find out that after a few months the rings begin to come apart, thus causing the book to do the same. Has anyone found binders that are better than most or any other way of containing their books? Just thought I'd ask. Hope everyone is having a great week.

I'm using Avery Heavy Duty 3", D-ring with lock, attached to the back cover so that the front cover & side open away from the ring. These have lasted almost 3 years with no tears of any kind, used 2 nights a week. I only have 4, 2 each Title & Artist. I think I bought them at Staples. These are the best I have ever used.

[Roy Dennis]

I don't know what part of the world your from but I use these 100 leave A4 display books which gives you 200 pages to display, no ring binders to come apart.
http://www.ryman.co.uk/0440230470/Ry...Pocket/Product

Whether you can get similar where you live I don't know.

[Skybird74]

Originally Posted by Roy Dennis

I don't know what part of the world your from but I use these 100 leave A4 display books which gives you 200 pages to display, no ring binders to come apart.
http://www.ryman.co.uk/0440230470/Ry...Pocket/Product

Whether you can get similar where you live I don't know.

I'm in Florida. How do you add new pages in front? I print out New Songs lists every 4-5 months and re-print every 2 years or so, to keep the cost down.

[Roy Dennis]

Originally Posted by Skybird74

I'm in Florida. How do you add new pages in front? I print out New Songs lists every 4-5 months and re-print every 2 years or so, to keep the cost down.

You can't add pages they are fixed at 100 leaves so showing both sides that is
200 pages, I always add my new entries to the back of the book where I still have spare leaves.

It was Chads Slater I was referring to about not knowing where he lives.
I don't know if they are available in other countries as I am in England.
Most places only stock about 40 leaves.

[Lonman]

Cool idea, never saw those around here. Too small for me, they'd have to have about an extra 50 available pages left.

[Roy Dennis]

Originally Posted by Lonman

Cool idea, never saw those around here. Too small for me, they'd have to have about an extra 50 available pages left.

I get very selective as to which songs I print in the book, I still have a lot of songs that I don't think have ever get sung. As the book fills up with new songs I eliminate old ones that never seem get chosen.

That's another advantage with the kiosk and phone app software, the size of the database is not a problem.
Still hanging on to see this addition with Hoster.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by Roy Dennis

I get very selective as to which songs I print in the book, I still have a lot of songs that I don't think have ever get sung. As the book fills up with new songs I eliminate old ones that never seem get chosen.

That's one thing i've always refused to do. Even though they may not get sung today, who knows who's going to come in tomorrow and become a regular singer (it happens quite often) because I have something they've never found anywhere else, then that dead song becomes a regularly played song. The new regulars will often do songs you normally wouldn't hear from your regular crowd as well - which is a very nice change most of the times.

[Skybird74]

Originally Posted by Lonman

That's one thing i've always refused to do. Even though they may not get sung today, who knows who's going to come in tomorrow and become a regular singer (it happens quite often) because I have something they've never found anywhere else, then that dead song becomes a regularly played song. The new regulars will often do songs you normally wouldn't hear from your regular crowd as well - which is a very nice change most of the times.

I have found that to be true also. All of a sudden people are singing songs I bought over 10 years ago and never heard anyone do before. People change & crowds change. And here in Florida, people come from all over the world on vacation. I've been upset when I've bought new disks at the request of a regular & then they don't sing what they requested. But then a year later, someone else will ask for that song.........you just never know.

I also print all versions. That keeps people from coming up & asking what version I have. I tell them to look at the book.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by Skybird74

I also print all versions. That keeps people from coming up & asking what version I have. I tell them to look at the book.

LOL, that was the reason I QUIT printing all versions. People continually asking "what's the difference between the versions." Then taking time to explain that different manus are like listening to a couple different cover bands, some bands will get it right & sound like the original song, while others just miss the mark while others can make the song unrecognizeable. Answer was always - give me the one that sounds most like the original in your opinion - so that's what I ended up doing.
Most people today i've found are saavy enough if they know a particular version, to write it down on the slip or just tell me "Pioneer version over Sound Choice" or the likes.

[RIKKI TIKKI]

Originally Posted by Roy Dennis

I get very selective as to which songs I print in the book, I still have a lot of songs that I don't think have ever get sung. As the book fills up with new songs I eliminate old ones that never seem get chosen.

That's another advantage with the kiosk and phone app software, the size of the database is not a problem.
Still hanging on to see this addition with Hoster.

Ditto That... I have "weeded out" most all of the dupes, that I have in computer database, as well as songs that seldom gets sung... in front of songbook I mention that the book doesn't have all songs available, and that if you don't find what you are looking for, just ask me/host to search for you...

My 1 1/2 inch binders (12) with sheet protectors (100 to 120) get updated every year, and new song pages about once every month... they are still looking ok after 5+ years... just replace a couple of damaged/graffitti/"Artists-Taggers", artwork with fresh sheet protectors, and they are good to go... 3 or 4 shows a wk for 5 years, they are a worthwhile investment...Avery Dennison brand with a textured surface to fight spills, and a soft pliable cover that allows the spline to bend without destroying the book...

I too am looking into a kiosk system... several coming on the market as we speak... Hopefully MTU will jump on the concept sooner and not later!

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by RIKKI TIKKI

I too am looking into a kiosk system... several coming on the market as we speak... Hopefully MTU will jump on the concept sooner and not later!

I'll probably have mine already going by the time they get theirs going - unfortuantely, it's the competition. I just need to figure out how to weed out the songs I do NOT want listed from the terminal station from the Hoster database before I employ it into use - shouldn't be too hard, both based on Access.

[RIKKI TIKKI]

Originally Posted by Lonman

I'll probably have mine already going by the time they get theirs going - unfortuantely, it's the competition. I just need to figure out how to weed out the songs I do NOT want listed from the terminal station from the Hoster database before I employ it into use - shouldn't be too hard, both based on Access.

I've got the same product that you are probably testing... my custom book making program, has the same problem with not showing what I don't wish to include in kiosk database... I've got my programming buddy that wrote my custom bookmaking program looking into the feasibility of improving his beta software and including the re-writing of the edited database that could be of great help when going to the kiosk method... just wanted to let MTU know that besides Roy, several of us loyalists, would rather have it incorporated in Hoster...