4.06 issues including out of sync on XP

[psinkiws]

I just ran a show on 11/1 and had to revert back to the 3.40 version to avoid synchronization issues. The problem started when a patron brought up their personal CD and I inserted it into my CD Drive. The music stopped moments later but I was able to resume it by clicking on the play button. However, the lyrics were badly off-sync with the graphics. I ran the older version after that without incident. I have a Dell 9300 running XP Media Center Edition with 1GB RAM, a 60GB Internal HD, NVIDIA GeForce Go 6800 with 256MB, 500GB External USB 2.0 HDD, and external Plextor PX-716UF USB 2.0 Drive. I do have the Process priority set for Real-Time but did not have any applications running other that Hoster. Background tasks include AVG 8.0 and PC Tools Spyware Doctor 6.

I have tried to use the intermission show display to have a slide show. I assumed that it could do that since the control is labelled Select Image Folder. I was disappointed to find that I could only select a single image and not a folder. I was later disappointed to find that I had to use MS Paint to scale down the size of the image since the Center tool did not resize the graphic to fit the screen while maintaining the proportion. Stretch forces it to the size of the screen but distorts it much like on the Desktop. Tile works the same as well.

There are still some Songbook creating issues as any use of special characters like / { or } actually take up additional characters when creating a songbook since the RTF coding requires a preceding slash character. Any long entries with special characters are thereby truncated.

Also, when entering a long list of performers, Hoster causes display problems. I only saw this when I had someone enter a list of 12 people to sing the twelve days of Christmas. It was a clever performance but I had to hold their slip aside to properly announce the next performers as Hoster could not handle it.

Also, there is no single click method of skipping the ending of a song. The skip button seems to be more for marking a track to be skipped.

Also, when importing CDs, the controls are awkward. The tracks do not show up on the list below unless you choose to search the online database. I find it awkward to make the necessary edits to make the information conform to the standards defined within your personal songbook. I can provide you with additional information, if necessary.

I think the intentions are good for version 4 but I think that there is still some polishing necessary to make this a viable product. I do appreciate your recognizing the need for a fallback position by providing a new version of 3 just in case you run into problems with 4. I don't know of many companies that go out of there way to do that. Thank you again.

Peter

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by psinkiws

I just ran a show on 11/1 and had to revert back to the 3.40 version to avoid synchronization issues. The problem started when a patron brought up their personal CD and I inserted it into my CD Drive. The music stopped moments later but I was able to resume it by clicking on the play button. However, the lyrics were badly off-sync with the graphics. I ran the older version after that without incident. I have a Dell 9300 running XP Media Center Edition with 1GB RAM, a 60GB Internal HD, NVIDIA GeForce Go 6800 with 256MB, 500GB External USB 2.0 HDD, and external Plextor PX-716UF USB 2.0 Drive. I do have the Process priority set for Real-Time but did not have any applications running other that Hoster. Background tasks include AVG 8.0 and PC Tools Spyware Doctor 6.

First turn off or stop AVG and PC Tools Spyware while you are running a show. These two programs will jump in and check files any time you pause your actions and you don't need them running when you are not connected to the internet.
Second try setting your Import quality (Tools-CD/DVD drives) to a lower setting. If the singer's disk is dirty or scratched it will require more resources for Hoster to try to error correct when it imports. This may show a few more glitches on screen but will lessen the chance of interuption.
Did you try restarting Hoster after the sync problem showed up?

Originally Posted by psinkiws

I have tried to use the intermission show display to have a slide show. I assumed that it could do that since the control is labelled Select Image Folder. I was disappointed to find that I could only select a single image and not a folder. I was later disappointed to find that I had to use MS Paint to scale down the size of the image since the Center tool did not resize the graphic to fit the screen while maintaining the proportion. Stretch forces it to the size of the screen but distorts it much like on the Desktop. Tile works the same as well.

The center, stretch and tile are Windows tools borrowed by Hoster. This will work exactly the same way it does in Windows (thus the same distortion you see on the desktop).
The Slide show part is not added yet. This should be in 4.10 early next year.

Originally Posted by psinkiws

There are still some Songbook creating issues as any use of special characters like / { or } actually take up additional characters when creating a songbook since the RTF coding requires a preceding slash character. Any long entries with special characters are thereby truncated.

I can't say I have seen this, but then I use MS Word to open it and that converts the file to a Word format.

Originally Posted by psinkiws

Also, when entering a long list of performers, Hoster causes display problems. I only saw this when I had someone enter a list of 12 people to sing the twelve days of Christmas. It was a clever performance but I had to hold their slip aside to properly announce the next performers as Hoster could not handle it.

Yes the longer the name and or title the more likely chance it will cause a display problem. The SND will only display a Maximum of 40 characters across. This is very unlikely to change.

Originally Posted by psinkiws

Also, there is no single click method of skipping the ending of a song. The skip button seems to be more for marking a track to be skipped.

If you want this then I would suggest you put it into the "New Features" forum. However keep in mind that what they have in the specs for future addition is to be able to set start and stop points for all you songs to take care of those long intros and outros. For the time being you can always click on (highlight) the next song you want to play and click on play. (I usually fade it out on my mixer to at least make a smooth transition.)

Originally Posted by psinkiws

Also, when importing CDs, the controls are awkward. The tracks do not show up on the list below unless you choose to search the online database. I find it awkward to make the necessary edits to make the information conform to the standards defined within your personal songbook. I can provide you with additional information, if necessary.

You can also choose the Local Database, but either way that is the only way that the disk is read and the tracks listed. This is the way it has always worked. The Local Database is being updated now, by us (the users). Everytime we enter a new CD (not previously in the database) or edit one then those changes/additions are sent to MTU to update the database.

Originally Posted by psinkiws

I think the intentions are good for version 4 but I think that there is still some polishing necessary to make this a viable product. I do appreciate your recognizing the need for a fallback position by providing a new version of 3 just in case you run into problems with 4. I don't know of many companies that go out of there way to do that. Thank you again.

Peter

The 3.4 version was included while they were struggling through all the Vista problems and getting the new Hoster setup to work with it (and XP) correctly. I would not look for it to be included much longer.

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by psinkiws

The problem started when a patron brought up their personal CD and I inserted it into my CD Drive. The music stopped moments later but I was able to resume it by clicking on the play button. Background tasks include AVG 8.0 and PC Tools Spyware Doctor 6.

AVG checks for viruses when you insert a CD in the drive. That is probably explains the timing of the problem. Like Dale said, turn these off during a show. You also could have shut down Hoster and restarted. That would have fixed the sync problem.

[mindonstrike]

Originally Posted by psinkiws
Also, there is no single click method of skipping the ending of a song. The skip button seems to be more for marking a track to be skipped.

If you have it set to "auto" (right above the delete button) and the currently playing song is highlighted, it should skip to the next song without any problems. If you highlight a track not playing then yes it will simply change the track to "skip" status.This part of Hoster was not changed from the way it has always worked.
Doing this in "Man"ual mode works the still works the same as always as well except that the SND no longer updates (somebody requested this change)

Another method you can use is to highlight the song you want to skip to, and click "play", Hoster will then skip to that song and start playing it.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by ddouglass;
[B

The 3.4 version was included while they were struggling through all the Vista problems and getting the new Hoster setup to work with it (and XP) correctly. I would not look for it to be included much longer.[/b]

Dale,
My question would be will those that have it now still have it to use as backup or will future upgrades delete it entirely?
Bryant

[ddouglass]

Bryant you are asking the wrong person. I have no idea.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

Bryant you are asking the wrong person. I have no idea.

I asked because you seem to have knowledge that it was no longer soon to be available.

[Skybird74]

Originally Posted by bryant

Dale,
My question would be will those that have it now still have it to use as backup or will future upgrades delete it entirely?
Bryant

It was suggested in earlier posts, to keep 3.321, just in case 3.4 is not included in future releases. Just about everyone was happy with it before 4.0x upgrades & Vista issues.

[capnvic]

Originally Posted by Skybird74

It was suggested in earlier posts, to keep 3.321, just in case 3.4 is not included in future releases. Just about everyone was happy with it before 4.0x upgrades & Vista issues.

You could also keep a version of 3.40 on hold for the meantime as well....just stash a version of 4.0x somewhere.However, I would think that whatever future product features come out from MTU should be well tested....

[ddouglass]

The only problem with that is you would have to re-install it online which means it can't be used on the fly as 3.4 can. When it is taken out I am sure you should not need it again anyway. I have not had to use it since installing 4.06. I think everyone has gotten to the point of relying on it like a crutch. Even older versions of Hoster used to glitch out once in a while for either internal or external problem. All we did then was restart Hoster or restart the computer and press on. Now with every little problem we switch over to 3.4 because 4.0x or the OS hiccuped (as KarenK put it). To bad the Vista users don't have XP to fall back on, eh

[capnvic]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

The only problem with that is you would have to re-install it online which means it can't be used on the fly as 3.4 can. When it is taken out I am sure you should not need it again anyway. I have not had to use it since installing 4.06. I think everyone has gotten to the point of relying on it like a crutch. Even older versions of Hoster used to glitch out once in a while for either internal or external problem. All we did then was restart Hoster or restart the computer and press on. Now with every little problem we switch over to 3.4 because 4.0x or the OS hiccuped (as KarenK put it). To bad the Vista users don't have XP to fall back on, eh

But Vista users could if they really wanted. You can install XP with the Vista Product Key, and it is authorized by MS. Although they don't make a point of advertising it...As for 4.06 It works fine for me too, so I am in agreement that you shouldn't be reliant on 3.221 or 3.4.

[capnvic]

Originally Posted by capnvic

But Vista users could if they really wanted. You can install XP with the Vista Product Key, and it is authorized by MS. Although they don't make a point of advertising it...As for 4.06 It works fine for me too, so I am in agreement that you shouldn't be reliant on 3.221 or 3.4.

maybe I'll just say very little and kibbutz for awhile...Problem with me doing this at work, when I should be working!

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by capnvic

But Vista users could if they really wanted. You can install XP with the Vista Product Key, and it is authorized by MS. Although they don't make a point of advertising it...As for 4.06 It works fine for me too, so I am in agreement that you shouldn't be reliant on 3.221 or 3.4.

However that doesn't allow them to use one then switch to the other imediately as 3.4 does.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Skybird74

It was suggested in earlier posts, to keep 3.321, just in case 3.4 is not included in future releases. Just about everyone was happy with it before 4.0x upgrades & Vista issues.

But it would cost an extra install, as my show computer has already used its upgrade from 3.321 to 4.06.

[Skybird74]

Originally Posted by bryant

But it would cost an extra install, as my show computer has already used its upgrade from 3.321 to 4.06.

Bryan, I only suggested this to people who are still afraid of 4.06 and even more afraid that the next upgrade (4.1) will not include 3.4. So, if a laptop with 4.0x crashed & a person became completely terrified of running 4.0x at a Show...... then they could always run their backup with 3.321 ...... (kinda like a security blanket)

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Skybird74

Bryan, I only suggested this to people who are still afraid of 4.06 and even more afraid that the next upgrade (4.1) will not include 3.4. So, if a laptop with 4.0x crashed & a person became completely terrified of running 4.0x at a Show...... then they could always run their backup with 3.321 ...... (kinda like a security blanket)

ahhh, right, I see. Good idea.

[psinkiws]

I have performed some additional tests and found that the problem only occurs when Spyware Doctor 6 (SD6) is running. I tested Hoster with AVG and SD6 running, only AVG running, only SD6 running, and neither AVG or SD6 running. The end result is conclusive that SD6 is the culprit. Even if I need to access the internet during a show, I don't think that SD6 will be necessary since AVG will protect me against viruses and spyware. Other applications with a similar demand, like playing a DVD, do not seem to be effected by SD6. Hopefully either MTU or PC Tools will find a solution to this problem. In the interim, it is something that I can live without.

On a side note, the disc was actually in good condition although I have learned from experience that a disc with a single scratch can cause problems while a disc that looks like it was through WWII reads fine. The problem was cleared up simply by stopping Hoster from playing a track, waiting for the import process to complete, and then playing the track from the beginning.
It is refreshing to know that the button (Select Image Folder) was named before the feature was fully implemented. At least I have the slide show feature to look forward to.

I have retested the same image I had tried to use in the Hoster intermission but instead placed it on my desktop. I found that, as you already stated, the controls are identical to Microsoft's existing controls. Perhaps MTU can implement a fourth option of Maintain Aspect Ratio (See MS Vista) so that the picture will take up as much of the screen as possible without being distorted. MS Vista has also added a fifth option of crop to fit screen. Funny how Microsoft can implement some cool new features for desktop wallpaper but still cannot make Windows Vista reliable.

As far as the Song Book is concerned, I think that the root of the problem is the implementation of creating the Song Book. My guess is that MTU is using a Query to copy the data to a temporary table with similar field names and identical field properties including field length. The problem arises when a field that is either near or at the maximum length for the field contains special characters as defined by the RTF spec. Each special character must be preceded by a slash character. The resulting modified data ends up requiring more characters then the field will allow thereby deleting the extra characters that wouldn't fit in the field. If, perhaps, the field length for the effected fields were either increased by no less than 6 characters or, better yet but possibly more complicated, run another query first to determine the maximum number of characters by moving the effected data to a Memo field and counting characters. Anyway, I'm sure the programmers should get the idea and may be able to come up with an even better idea.

The number of characters allowed in the Singer field does not approach the 40 that you have stated. If I enter in a song by the BookID, I am allowed to enter 21 characters in the Singer field. If I use the Search button to find a track, I am allowed to enter 25 characters in the Singer field. What am I missing in order to be able to enter 40 characters.

Thank you to everyone who posted the clarification on the use of the Skip button. I was not aware that its function was dependant on what track was highlighted. I have tested it on my own and found it to work perfectly, just as was described.

Regarding the importing of CD tracks into my library, I retested that function to try to be more specific regarding the awkwardness I was vague about earlier. I believe that some of the awkwardness that I remembered was already polished up but I did find a couple of outstanding issues. It is not clear when editing a song title or an artist name that you need to right-click on that field in order to edit it. Once you are in this Edit mode, I found that you can easily navigate to the next field by using the Tab key or the previous field by using Shift-Tab. However, I did find that two subsequent clicks of the Tab button causes the mouse pointer to disappear. The only way out of this Edit Mode trap is by clicking on the ESC key.

To everyone concerned about the continued availability of 3.4 in future releases, you have to keep in mind that MTU can only make this available if the format of the HST file remains the same. If MTU adds new features requiring the alteration of the HST structure, then 3.4 will be useless. There is one caveat about using 3.4 even now. If you were to run 3.4 using a HST file that contain BookID data (a really cool feature of Hoster 4), this data is permanently deleted. It does not prevent you from opening up the HST file in version 4 and adding new tracks with the BookID displayed however.
Lastly, I just want to say how great it is to be able to interface with a company as responsive as MTU has been. They listen to what everyone says and, whenever possible, has implemented every bug fix or feature request asked for. Perhaps if Microsoft took this approach, Vista might actually work.

The above message is a recreation (to the best of my memory) of a response that I originally created on the website. However, because of the length of the message, my session timed out before I was able to post the message and, even when I signed back in, it was too late. There was a fatal error preventing the posting and using the back button in the browser did not bring me back to my message to save it elsewhere. Perhaps someone should give a message to Jelsoft to not have the session time out if someone is actively typing in a window. For now, I have learned my lesson and created the entire message in Notepad later to be copied and pasted in the forum.

Thanks again,
Peter

[marklwood]

Wow, where have you been since 2005? What great and detailed explanations. I wish we could get this kind of response from all on the forums. Don't be such a stranger

PS. You are now the anti-Beavis

[bryant]

Originally Posted by marklwood

PS. You are now the anti-Beavis

Wow, Beav, did you hear that?

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by psinkiws

I have performed some additional tests and found that the problem only occurs when Spyware Doctor 6 (SD6) is running. I tested Hoster with AVG and SD6 running, only AVG running, only SD6 running, and neither AVG or SD6 running. The end result is conclusive that SD6 is the culprit. Even if I need to access the internet during a show, I don't think that SD6 will be necessary since AVG will protect me against viruses and spyware. Other applications with a similar demand, like playing a DVD, do not seem to be effected by SD6. Hopefully either MTU or PC Tools will find a solution to this problem. In the interim, it is something that I can live without.

I don't think MTU or SD6 is going to do anything about it, so your best bet is to turn it off when you are doing a show. I seem to remember someone else had the same kind of problem with Norton's Commander.

Originally Posted by psinkiws

On a side note, the disc was actually in good condition although I have learned from experience that a disc with a single scratch can cause problems while a disc that looks like it was through WWII reads fine. The problem was cleared up simply by stopping Hoster from playing a track, waiting for the import process to complete, and then playing the track from the beginning.

4.06 should stop at the end of th eplaying track and wait until the import finishes. At least that is the way it is supposed to be working.

Originally Posted by psinkiws

It is refreshing to know that the button (Select Image Folder) was named before the feature was fully implemented. At least I have the slide show feature to look forward to.

I too am looking forward to this, but then I am also looking forward to several of the planned improvements due in 2009.

Originally Posted by psinkiws

I have retested the same image I had tried to use in the Hoster intermission but instead placed it on my desktop. I found that, as you already stated, the controls are identical to Microsoft's existing controls. Perhaps MTU can implement a fourth option of Maintain Aspect Ratio (See MS Vista) so that the picture will take up as much of the screen as possible without being distorted. MS Vista has also added a fifth option of crop to fit screen. Funny how Microsoft can implement some cool new features for desktop wallpaper but still cannot make Windows Vista reliable.

Mtu can only use what is available, so either Microsoft will have to implement it for XP or we all suddenly lose XP and have to install Vista.

Originally Posted by psinkiws

The number of characters allowed in the Singer field does not approach the 40 that you have stated. If I enter in a song by the BookID, I am allowed to enter 21 characters in the Singer field. If I use the Search button to find a track, I am allowed to enter 25 characters in the Singer field. What am I missing in order to be able to enter 40 characters.
Thank you to everyone who posted the clarification on the use of the Skip button. I was not aware that its function was dependant on what track was highlighted. I have tested it on my own and found it to work perfectly, just as was described.

Actually what I said was the SND only displays 40 characters across the screen that would be all fields (Time, Name, and Title). Not that the name could be 40 characters long. If anything makes it go over 40 characters it is truncated.

Originally Posted by psinkiws

Regarding the importing of CD tracks into my library, I retested that function to try to be more specific regarding the awkwardness I was vague about earlier. I believe that some of the awkwardness that I remembered was already polished up but I did find a couple of outstanding issues. It is not clear when editing a song title or an artist name that you need to right-click on that field in order to edit it. Once you are in this Edit mode, I found that you can easily navigate to the next field by using the Tab key or the previous field by using Shift-Tab. However, I did find that two subsequent clicks of the Tab button causes the mouse pointer to disappear. The only way out of this Edit Mode trap is by clicking on the ESC key.

The manual clearly states you have to right click on those fields to edit them. The same applies in the Edit tool and to edit a singer's name in the playlist. When you double tab and cursor dissapears have you tried typing anyway to see if it is in the next window. I have seen this in Internet explorer when I am trying to do a Google search and the page I am on is still loading. If I click on the Google search block too soon I get no cursor, but I can still type in it.

Originally Posted by psinkiws

To everyone concerned about the continued availability of 3.4 in future releases, you have to keep in mind that MTU can only make this available if the format of the HST file remains the same. If MTU adds new features requiring the alteration of the HST structure, then 3.4 will be useless. There is one caveat about using 3.4 even now. If you were to run 3.4 using a HST file that contain BookID data (a really cool feature of Hoster 4), this data is permanently deleted. It does not prevent you from opening up the HST file in version 4 and adding new tracks with the BookID displayed however.

The BookID and the File Type that we now see on the playlist, has always been in the saved lists (.HST files), but not displayed on the screen until this version. Nothing has changed as far as the .HST file is concerned. These two items were added to the display at the beta testers request to assist us in testing and prved to be so helpful that MTU left them in. This has nothing to do with the 3.4 version being available.
That was requested by some since version 4 was going to have a lot of new features requiring additional learning time. This was granted by MTU and left in while all the problems with the new version were worked out. Sometime in the future this will be removed when MTU decides that Hoster is absolutely stable and no further major problems come up.

Originally Posted by psinkiws

Perhaps someone should give a message to Jelsoft to not have the session time out if someone is actively typing in a window. For now, I have learned my lesson and created the entire message in Notepad later to be copied and pasted in the forum.
Thanks again,
Peter

I am not sure why your session timed out, because I have never seen this happen and I am usually in the forums all day and late into the evening. I have just spent 45 minutes answering your post and no problem. I would check with your internet provider to find out why your connection is dropping. I had that problem and yelled at them long enough and loud enough that they finally changed out the router. No drops since then.
However typing your message in Notepad will not work as Notepad add special characters into the text when you copy it into this forum message window. Try a short post (a couple of sentences), copy it into a message window, then preview it. You will see what it adds.