Time delay in hoster display

[Singsation]

Hi Guys, I have just downloaded Hoster 4.06, when i play a mpeg video files the image starts on the second display about 4 seconds before the the hoster display although everything is in sync on the second display (audio and video) it's a bit annoying when i am trying to cue my converted lazer disc karaoke tracks. Hoster is geat and i have used it since release but i cannot understand why there is so many problems with key changer and video display, I have another dj software package which I wont advertise that does not have any of these isues regarding video display and key change but still is no where near as user friendly as Hoster or as stable.
Windows XP sp3, Nivida GL7500 512meg, HPdual core, 2gig ddr ram
Many Thanks
Garry.

[Roy Dennis]

Try switching to the old player. To do this go to Tools/options/ at the bottom of the options list is "Select current video player" Change this, you will find the preview doesn't show video but the singers screen works right.

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by Singsation

Hi Guys, I have just downloaded Hoster 4.06, when i play a mpeg video files the image starts on the second display about 4 seconds before the the hoster display although everything is in sync on the second display (audio and video) it's a bit annoying when i am trying to cue my converted lazer disc karaoke tracks. Hoster is geat and i have used it since release but i cannot understand why there is so many problems with key changer and video display, I have another dj software package which I wont advertise that does not have any of these isues regarding video display and key change but still is no where near as user friendly as Hoster or as stable.
Windows XP sp3, Nivida GL7500 512meg, HPdual core, 2gig ddr ram
Many Thanks
Garry.

Hoster is going through a double transistion right now. Vista has caused a major amount of problems that have slowed down the upgrading of Hoster's video and audio. Hoster 4 has a totally new player and sound manager needed to allow MTU to add the new features such as Crossfade and Tempo change that we users have requested.
Getting this working and stable for Vista and XP has been a major challenge for them. When they fix something for Vista it breaks in XP and back and forth. Microsoft screwed up so many things in Vista that even they don't know how to fix it and will be abandoning it next year.
Now to your problem when you move your singer's display to the second display are you double clicking it to jump it over or dragging it and resizing? Some of the users in here have found that by dragging and resizing the display and making it not quite full screen has kept the video in sync in both locations.

[Singsation]

Hi thanks for your replies, the problem with using the old player is that I loose a valuable preview display which means I have to be in view of the singers display or use a further moniter for myself, which defeats the object, as I have about 2500 mpeg karaoke tracks most of them good versions, they are used quite alot. I do drag and resize the display on the second moniter. There is no problem with cdgs or KMA just video. When I first installed 4.06 it would play windows media animations on one moniter and the video on the other, why, i don't know, it just did. But since updating all the drivers and updating to SP3 this is now sorted. Just this time delay to sort out.
Thanks Garry

[Picolo Porco]

I agree. This is a major, major problem for me. I bought a new computer, new video card--both just short of very high end specs--and still have sync issues (about a half second video lags audio) with Hoster. I don't have the same problem with other video players and files using the same multi-monitor setup, and I don't have the same problem if the computer is in single monitor mode (i.e., the singer's monitor isn't enabled via extended desktop).

Unfortunately, I have a big investment in Hoster with over 9,000 songs imported and am basically held hostage, hoping that some future release will fix my problems.

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by Picolo Porco

I agree. This is a major, major problem for me. I bought a new computer, new video card--both just short of very high end specs--and still have sync issues (about a half second video lags audio) with Hoster. I don't have the same problem with other video players and files using the same multi-monitor setup, and I don't have the same problem if the computer is in single monitor mode (i.e., the singer's monitor isn't enabled via extended desktop).

Unfortunately, I have a big investment in Hoster with over 9,000 songs imported and am basically held hostage, hoping that some future release will fix my problems.

Your problem does not sound like the same thing as Singsation. His problem is a slight delay between the 2nd monitor and the Preview screen display.
Video requires much more resources than a standard CDG does. When you throw in a second monitor/display then that taxes the system even more.
You say you bought a high-end system and video card, but this doesn't really tell us anything about your system.
Is it a laptop or desktop?
Vista or XP?
Processor speed?
Memory (RAM) amount?
Video card type and amount of memory on it?
Power Supply size (does it matter....yes it does)

[Picolo Porco]

Here are the specs, and please don't just point at Vista and say that it's its fault. I am running well above the minimum specs and have everything set as per MTU's instructions. Also, I was having the exact same problem with XP MCE SP3 which is why I bought a whole new computer.

Desktop
Core 2 Quad Q6600 @2.4GHz
4 GB RAM

Vista Ultimate 64 bit
ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT @ 800MHz w/8.552 driver and 8.11 Control Center
512 MB DDR3@700 MHz

350 GB free on the system disk
kma files are on a separate partition

first screen is a Dell monitor via DVI at 1280x1024@60Mhz
second screen is a plasma HDTV via DVI. I've tried 1080i and 720p

I always have a delay of at least a quarter second when running with extended desktop and a singer's display. Both the new player and the old player give the same results.

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by Picolo Porco

Here are the specs, and please don't just point at Vista and say that it's its fault. I am running well above the minimum specs and have everything set as per MTU's instructions. Also, I was having the exact same problem with XP MCE SP3 which is why I bought a whole new computer.

Desktop
Core 2 Quad Q6600 @2.4GHz
4 GB RAM

Vista Ultimate 64 bit
ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT @ 800MHz w/8.552 driver and 8.11 Control Center
512 MB DDR3@700 MHz

350 GB free on the system disk
kma files are on a separate partition

first screen is a Dell monitor via DVI at 1280x1024@60Mhz
second screen is a plasma HDTV via DVI. I've tried 1080i and 720p

I always have a delay of at least a quarter second when running with extended desktop and a singer's display. Both the new player and the old player give the same results.

You did not list your power supply rating. This can effect the performance. According to ATI, for that card a minimum of a 400 watt power supply is needed.

For the second screen what resolution are you using?
Hoster is only set to run in 1024x786 or 800x600 (for the secondary).
The big question that comes to mind is why are you using HDMI when Hoster's (Windows Media Player) output does not support HD.
Have you tried it with SVideo analog output?

I would try the above first then the following if that still won't fix the delay.

Leave Hoster 4.06 closed and open Hoster 3.4.
Go to Tools/Playback Offset. Set it for -0.5 and close Hoster 3.4.
Open Hoster 4.06 and try a couple songs to see if this helped. If it isn't enough go back and do it again setting it down to -1.0.
Even though this offset was removed from 4.0x version 3.4 still will set it in the registry and it does effect 4.06. Because of this discovery this control has been added back in version 4.10 so you won't have to do it this round about way if needed.

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by Picolo Porco

Here are the specs, and please don't just point at Vista and say that it's its fault. I am running well above the minimum specs and have everything set as per MTU's instructions. Also, I was having the exact same problem with XP MCE SP3 which is why I bought a whole new computer.

I would really like to help you solve these ongoing issues. I was wondering what these two systems have in common. Do you have the same software on both machines other than Hoster? Are any of these running in the background? Specifically, I am inquiring about anti-virus, anti-spyware, "helper" programs for your video card, sound card, or maybe a printer. Do you know what services are running? We can go through these one at a time until we find an answer.

[Singsation]

Just a thought, you could make sure A/V sync is turned off on the plasma display as it might be waiting for a audio singnal to sync up with.
worth a try,

[Picolo Porco]

I have not tried disabling my anti virus (NOD32) because the box is hooked up to the Internet. If this is potentially the problem, let me know and I will unplug and try it.

My power supply is 600W.

Attached are pics of taskman's services and processes running.

The HDMI A/V sync issue on the monitors, themselves isn't an issue. I run VLC Player for music videos (mp4's with H264 encoding) with no video lag at all--and it would be much more noticeable on a video if lips were out of sync. Why not use VLC's codecs or ffmpeg's if WMP is such a pain?

HDTV resolutions on the second monitor are either 1280x720 at 60 Hz (720p) or 1920x1080 at 30 Hz (1080i). My displays are DVI because that is how my entire bar is wired. The signal gets split out to 4 HDMI sets. We do not only do karaoke, and the high def signal is both necessary and would be a royal pain and expense to supplement with an analog signal. Also, I'm convinced that this is not the problem, as this setup worked fine at one point with an earlier version of Hoster (though I don't remember which one) and the same monitors setup.

I will definitely try the suggestion of bumping the sync using the controls in v.3.x. Thanks for the idea. I'll let you know how it works, though from a purist point of view, I still think it would be ideal to fix the root cause of the issue.

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by Picolo Porco

The HDMI A/V sync issue on the monitors, themselves isn't an issue. I run VLC Player for music videos (mp4's with H264 encoding) with no video lag at all--and it would be much more noticeable on a video if lips were out of sync. Why not use VLC's codecs or ffmpeg's if WMP is such a pain?

Are you running the audio to the TVs too? If so then the A/V sync could very well be an issue. As far as the codecs all the programs use the same codecs for any particular type of file that they support. Since neither Hoster or WMP support MP4s and karaoke videos don't come in MP4 then that is hardly a fair comparison.

Originally Posted by Picolo Porco

HDTV resolutions on the second monitor are either 1280x720 at 60 Hz (720p) or 1920x1080 at 30 Hz (1080i). My displays are DVI because that is how my entire bar is wired. The signal gets split out to 4 HDMI sets. We do not only do karaoke, and the high def signal is both necessary and would be a royal pain and expense to supplement with an analog signal. Also, I'm convinced that this is not the problem, as this setup worked fine at one point with an earlier version of Hoster (though I don't remember which one) and the same monitors setup.

Is everything out of sync or just Video type karaoke songs?
Hoster is optimized to work with 1024x768 or 800x600 and not those resolutions which may be why the sync is off.

[Picolo Porco]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

Are you running the audio to the TVs too? If so then the A/V sync could very well be an issue. As far as the codecs all the programs use the same codecs for any particular type of file that they support. Since neither Hoster or WMP support MP4s and karaoke videos don't come in MP4 then that is hardly a fair comparison.

There is no audio running to the TV's. The audio gets routed into a sound board and then out to my sound system. My point with the mp4's is that they run on the same system with the exact same setup and there's no sync issue. The graphics for the kma karaoke tracks seems much less complex/easier to crunch.

I don't think you're right about the codec thing, though. Apps can use the system-installed ones or rely on their own. From what I understand, VLC relies on its own, exclusively. I could be wrong, but that's what I get out of their forums and reviews.

Originally Posted by ddouglass

Is everything out of sync or just Video type karaoke songs? Hoster is optimized to work with 1024x768 or 800x600 and not those resolutions which may be why the sync is off.

So what should I do with a display that is not 4:3 aspect ratio? Seems like a lot of people would be using widescreen TV's for Hoster or even regular def TV's (704x480)...

[ddouglass]

We have two that we use that are wide screen and they work fine. both have been set to expand to full screen.
VLC may include the codecs in their install but my bet is that they are exactly the same as those for any other program.
If you don't have any audio routed to the TVs how does the A/V sync do its job?

[Picolo Porco]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

We have two that we use that are wide screen and they work fine. both have been set to expand to full screen.
VLC may include the codecs in their install but my bet is that they are exactly the same as those for any other program.
If you don't have any audio routed to the TVs how does the A/V sync do its job?

Right. My HDTV's are also expanded to full screen. The actual resolution on any HDTV is what I listed above.

I don't know what A/V sync is or how it might do its job. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that "A/V Sync" might be an option on my monitors that was screwing things up. It's not.

The audio (routed from the computer via a sound card to a mixing board to amps) for Hoster and for Hoster only is out of sync with the video (routed via the computer through a video card to an HDMI splitter to TV's). Playing music video files (mp4's which I play with VLC Player) does not create the same issue. Britney Spears' lips move in exact synchronization with her music. The sound and the video are both output in the exact same way for VLC as they are for Hoster.

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by Picolo Porco

Right. My HDTV's are also expanded to full screen. The actual resolution on any HDTV is what I listed above.

I don't know what A/V sync is or how it might do its job. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that "A/V Sync" might be an option on my monitors that was screwing things up. It's not.

The audio (routed from the computer via a sound card to a mixing board to amps) for Hoster and for Hoster only is out of sync with the video (routed via the computer through a video card to an HDMI splitter to TV's). Playing music video files (mp4's which I play with VLC Player) does not create the same issue. Britney Spears' lips move in exact synchronization with her music. The sound and the video are both output in the exact same way for VLC as they are for Hoster.

Obviously we aren't finding the cause or reason for this on your system, so try this:
Close Hoster 4.06.
Open Hoster 3.4 (C:\Program Files\Micro Technology Unlimited\Hoster).
Go to Tools/Playback Offset and change to either +0.5 (if Audio is lagging behind Video) or -0.5 (if Video is lagging behind Audio).
Close 3.4, reopen Hoster 4.06 and try it to see if that fixes it.

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by Picolo Porco

Attached are pics of taskman's services and processes running.

I have only had time so far to go through your task manager attachment. Here are my initial thoughts.

dwm.exe is Vista Aero. Why oh Why is this running? Did you not read the install instructions for Hoster? This is your problem right there.
wmpnscfg.exe is Windows Media Player network sharing service. Do you need to share music files with an Xbox-360 while you are doing your show? Get rid of it.
MOM.exe is either an ATI "helper" program or is a spyware app. See if it is in programfiles\mom\mom.exe. If so, it is spyware. If not, you can still do without it, but it is probably OK.
jusched.exe is a java update program. It is a huge waste of space. It's only purpose is to check for updates to Java. You can do that yourself. Get rid of it.
Firefox.exe Do you really need to be on the internet during your show? Get rid of it.
egui.exe is Norton Anti-virus. A resource hog in itself. Not only that, it is difficult to un-install. They have a fix for the un-install on their website. Try a nice free anti-virus like AVG that doesn't steal as many resources and can be easily turned off during your show.
cthelper.exe is soundblaster's "helper" program. It is not necessary. The soundcard will plug and play without the bloated software.
Ati2evxx.exe is an event driver for WindowsNT and Windows 9xx. Get rid of it.

Do this for me. In Task manager, kill these processes one at a time and run a test of Hoster. If your system becomes unstable, you haven't done anything a reboot won't fix. If I am correct, you will soon narrow down the culprit. When Hoster runs in sync, you will have found the problem child.

When I get some more time tomorrow, I will look through the services.

[Picolo Porco]

Hmm. I'm pretty sure I turned off Aero. The instructions on the site aren't correct for my system. I just went under mouse/pointer themes and put "None". How do I prevent the other services from starting without getting kludgy and adding some 3rd party software? My AV is NOD32, not Norton. I've been told it's pretty resource light.

All of that said, I went to download the 3.x version to change the speed, and I saw on the download area that some people "found that 4.03 works better." I installed that, and voilà. No more delay at all. Hopefully 4.1 will fix whatever was changed after 4.03. For now, everything is peachy.

I appreciate your help, and I hope that MTU sees this and figures out what they changed and why it shouldn't have been changed.

Originally Posted by marklwood

I have only had time so far to go through your task manager attachment. Here are my initial thoughts.

dwm.exe is Vista Aero. Why oh Why is this running? Did you not read the install instructions for Hoster? This is your problem right there.
wmpnscfg.exe is Windows Media Player network sharing service. Do you need to share music files with an Xbox-360 while you are doing your show? Get rid of it.
MOM.exe is either an ATI "helper" program or is a spyware app. See if it is in programfiles\mom\mom.exe. If so, it is spyware. If not, you can still do without it, but it is probably OK.
jusched.exe is a java update program. It is a huge waste of space. It's only purpose is to check for updates to Java. You can do that yourself. Get rid of it.
Firefox.exe Do you really need to be on the internet during your show? Get rid of it.
egui.exe is Norton Anti-virus. A resource hog in itself. Not only that, it is difficult to un-install. They have a fix for the un-install on their website. Try a nice free anti-virus like AVG that doesn't steal as many resources and can be easily turned off during your show.
cthelper.exe is soundblaster's "helper" program. It is not necessary. The soundcard will plug and play without the bloated software.
Ati2evxx.exe is an event driver for WindowsNT and Windows 9xx. Get rid of it.

Do this for me. In Task manager, kill these processes one at a time and run a test of Hoster. If your system becomes unstable, you haven't done anything a reboot won't fix. If I am correct, you will soon narrow down the culprit. When Hoster runs in sync, you will have found the problem child.

When I get some more time tomorrow, I will look through the services.

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by Picolo Porco

Hmm. I'm pretty sure I turned off Aero. The instructions on the site aren't correct for my system. I just went under mouse/pointer themes and put "None". How do I prevent the other services from starting without getting kludgy and adding some 3rd party software? My AV is NOD32, not Norton. I've been told it's pretty resource light.

All of that said, I went to download the 3.x version to change the speed, and I saw on the download area that some people "found that 4.03 works better." I installed that, and voilà. No more delay at all. Hopefully 4.1 will fix whatever was changed after 4.03. For now, everything is peachy.

I appreciate your help, and I hope that MTU sees this and figures out what they changed and why it shouldn't have been changed.

Here is the reference I use on every new machine I set up.

http://www.blackviper.com/WinVista/supertweaks.htm

This is a link to the page you need. Take some time to read the rest of the information on this guy's site. I have never found a better reference for tweaking for performance than this site. I have used this site for the last 10 years and he has never steered me wrong.

[Picolo Porco]

I spoke too soon. Seems with 4.03 the video is maybe 1/4-1/2 a second ahead of the music now. That's better than when it was behind, but it's still not great. I'll take a look at those Vista tweaks you mentioned.