MTU.Community - Singer's list

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- - Singer's list - max size? (http://forum.mtu.com/showthread.php?t=11351)

Quote:

Originally Posted by laddie (Post 90938)

I don't mind. Maybe I misspoke, 25 may not be the magic number, I guess I should have said large. The problem is the same as always, when a large list refreshes it slows or stops everthing. The other problems are in my previous post. My comments are not negative, I simply stated the facts as I see them. I cannot control how you perceive them. I would hope you would see them as constructive, as they were meant.

The only thing I have noticed is if I open a large singers (80 - 100) list when playing an audio song it stops the two animated GIFs I have set up for the Audio Display but does not effect anything with the audio. When playing a CDG file I see no change, slow down or problem. Are your lists refreshing like before or just when it initially lists the songs for the singer you picked?
As far as you other problems anytime you edit the database that information must be saved which means you have just added more load to the processor. I would not consider doing any editing of either database during a show. Write a note to yourself and do it later after the show.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddouglass (Post 90940)

Roy this is about the singers database not the songs database which search uses.

Yes Dale, I know that. I was just trying to give him another way to list all his 800 songs which he says is slow to list.
It would be an alternative method as the singers list is not meant to be that long a list.

Roy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddouglass (Post 90941)

The reduced refresh in 4.08 helped a lot and when the refresh occurs it doesn't stop cdg music or lyrics. You just can't do anything else until it finishes ( which is normally not a problem). As I said the problems are more of an annoyance than anything else and there are some work around, most ae listed throughout this forum. Although I know that they are functionally different, I would like to see the singers data base operate as smooth as the search function.

Laddie do a search using the "*" and see how long it takes for it to list. I think you will find that it also will take a long time too during which you can do nothing else.
Now consider that the Singers database is not just accessing itself but also the songs database to get the song information. It isn't going to get any faster. I know I have done extensive work ing Access database operation for many years and through many versions. The more data you have to read the longer it will take.

Quote:

Originally Posted by laddie (Post 90938)

The problem with the singers DB has been here since the first 4.xx

The problem is the same as always........it slows or stops everthing.

what will they think?

This sounds like 1. MTU can not fix a problem with their programs and 2. the problem is so bad that it stops or "locks up", something nobody wants a computer program to ever do. No final release version of Hoster 3.xx or 4.xx has ever "locked up", crashed or left me where I could not do anything. 4.07 hung on an MP3 and could be fixed by hitting the stop button or the skip button but it never "locked up", crashed or was left in a state where I couldn't get it to do anything. The final version of 4.07 was the first time in 40 years that MTU has had everything work in the beta but not work in the final release, not a bad track record.

Note: I run my MP3's in a different program. Since I don't run MP3's in Hoster, I can run a show with 4.07 and have no problems. :w

When statements like this are posted on the board I feel obligated to ask questions so we can find out exacly what the issue is. In your case it turned out to be the fact that the Singer Database accesses a Microsoft Access document (pun intended :g) which as Dale pointed out will take longer as the database grows, it's the nature of the beast. Another fact to concider is that the search window only has to refresh once per search. The singer database has to refesh any time a singer is selected so that the singer's songs which are added to the list throuhout the night are available for immeadiate selection.

When folks read about problems, they won't purchase the program. I get paid no money for the time I spend testing programs and working with folks on the forum. I do it because the folks at MTU are #1, Hoster (now 4.08) is an awesome program and I like to help folks (it's my nature :t). I'm not too concered with how much money MTU makes, that concern is Admin's. My concern is that negative statements posted on this forum which aren't addressed prevent folks from buying Hoster and benifiting from the great features that it offers a professional karaoke host.

Your suggestions on how to deal with this issue are intelligent and practical and will benifit others who see the same thing. I have singer's lists that are well over 100 songs and it only takes a couple of seconds for them to open on my machine which may be attributed to my 3.0 Intel processor. The only reason I asked you for a more detaied explaination was to break down the communication barier that a forum can create, not to imply that you were purposely making negative statements. :s

I thank you for the opportunity to bring out this point. I also thank you for being an active member of this forum, your advise is alway good! :c

Jim :g

I have over 60 singers in my singers database, some have over 50 songs each. I never have a problem. My computer is running XP and has shared graphics and 2 gb of ram. I attribute the lack of problems to making sure services that are not needed for the show are turned off. Examples are Anti Virus and Wireless network connection. Also, I stop automatic updates. I have an old printed copy of the Hoster manual that has some changes that are not in the new manual (or I have over looked them). I will try to scan them and have one of you gurus look at them to see if maybe they need to be added back. When I installed 4.08 on the Dell laptop I am now using I had issues with the search window and singers database window until I made these changes. They are things like getting rid of your desktop picture as well as changing performance settings. I suspect that these may help. It may be next week before I can scan them. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by madjim (Post 90962)

Hey Laddie,
I have the utmost respect for your knowledge of computers and know that you are not intentionally making negative statements but please concider this. When a guest is thinking about buying Hoster and reads posts like:

what will they think?

This sounds like 1. MTU can not fix a problem with their programs and 2. the problem is so bad that it stops or "locks up", something nobody wants a computer program to ever do. No final release version of Hoster 3.xx or 4.xx has ever "locked up", crashed or left me where I could not do anything. 4.07 hung on an MP3 and could be fixed by hitting the stop button or the skip button but it never "locked up", crashed or was left in a state where I couldn't get it to do anything. The final version of 4.07 was the first time in 40 years that MTU has had everything work in the beta but not work in the final release, not a bad track record.

Note: I run my MP3's in a different program. Since I don't run MP3's in Hoster, I can run a show with 4.07 and have no problems. :w

When statements like this are posted on the board I feel obligated to ask questions so we can find out exacly what the issue is. In your case it turned out to be the fact that the Singer Database accesses a Microsoft Access document (pun intended :g) which as Dale pointed out will take longer as the database grows, it's the nature of the beast. Another fact to concider is that the search window only has to refresh once per search. The singer database has to refesh any time a singer is selected so that the singer's songs which are added to the list throuhout the night are available for immeadiate selection.

When folks read about problems, they won't purchase the program. I get paid no money for the time I spend testing programs and working with folks on the forum. I do it because the folks at MTU are #1, Hoster (now 4.08) is an awesome program and I like to help folks (it's my nature :t). I'm not too concered with how much money MTU makes, that concern is Admin's. My concern is that negative statements posted on this forum which aren't addressed prevent folks from buying Hoster and benifiting from the great features that it offers a professional karaoke host.

Your suggestions on how to deal with this issue are intelligent and practical and will benifit others who see the same thing. I have singer's lists that are well over 100 songs and it only takes a couple of seconds for them to open on my machine which may be attributed to my 3.0 Intel processor. The only reason I asked you for a more detaied explaination was to break down the communication barier that a forum can create, not to imply that you were purposely making negative statements. :s

I thank you for the opportunity to bring out this point. I also thank you for being an active member of this forum, your advise is alway good! :c

Jim :g

As I said, it is a matter of perception and I can't help you perceive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by songpony (Post 90750)

Can you edit it in the playlist? I haven't been able to modify singer's name once it's in the list (could with previous versions).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddouglass (Post 90751)

Right Click the Singers Name instead of left clicking and then you can edit it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by songpony (Post 90752)

Ahhh. Glad to see we haven't lost that capability. Thanks!

And now we changed it again! :r :w
We had some users complain we weren't following WIndows "standards" so we now use click twice with any delay between them, or double-click quickly... either will open the field for editing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by songpony (Post 90930)

I didn't say it was - I was just asking if anyone knew if there was an "optimum" value. I obviously do not sing 800 songs a night, a week, a month, etc. - it just happens to be how many I know and the list that I pick from. I thought it would be handy if I could have it set up in a singer's list, but if I can't, no big deal (I've been using an Excel spreadsheet for 8 years now - I can certainly continue using it). I sing only once per rotation, and it just so happens that the customers at the places I work actually get MAD at me if I don't sing. Many try to get me to put myself in more than once in a rotation, but I won't. I (and my customers) happen to think I'm running my shows appropriately, so that's really my only concern. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however. I just want to make it clear that I am not, and never was, COMPLAINING about the fact that opening up such a large list is too slow - I was "information gathering", which I think this forum is an appropriate venue for.

Songpony, I'm sure DiggerWertz didn't mean to "open a can of worms" as he said. I do believe his clientele don't ask him to get on stage and sing. Heck, if you've got a good voice and are a pretty lady... who wouldn't want you to get on stage and perform (please take that with the respect intended).

I have talked or heard of thousands of Karaoke Hosts who sing in every rotation, about as many who never sings, and probably even more who sing to "fill in" until the show gets rolling and the rotation gets filled in.

Now, about how long your Singers Database takes to build. I have talked with Engineering and there are 3 facts we'd like you to answer.

1. Are you running XP or Vista? Vista will take LONGER to build anything. We recommend replacing it with XP while you can.

2. How much system RAM do you have installed in your computer? If you have too little, then Windows is page swapping often, which can extend the build time by double, tripple or more. If running Vista, you NEVER have enough RAM... or so it seems.

3. How many songs are in your SONGS Database (NOT Singer DB)? An easy way to find out is see how many pages of XXX songs per page are in your Song Book (if built by Hoster). If you don't use Hoster, then create a Songbook with it and it will tell you exactly how many songs it found.

The more songs are there, the longer it takes to do the searches to build the Singers Tables... AND... the more RAM is required to open and work with the SONGS DB. Thus, there is an interaction between the Windows OS, RAM available, and Songs.mdb database size. The fellows here are doing a truly EXCELLENT job at trying to help, and now we want to gum it all up with stoggy ol' facts that only us dudes can process! :t :w

If you have 1GB RAM and XP, add 1GB more so you have 2GB.

If you have 2GB RAM and Vista, add 1 or 2GB more so you have 3GB to 4GB.

Please let us know the answers above. :)

response to questions

Thanks for the update. I have 2GB of RAM and am running Windows XP; I have just under 11,000 songs in my song database. My laptop is about 8 years old though, so I know the processor (even at 3.06GHz) isn't a speed-demon compared to what's available today.

I really am aware that having 800 songs in a singer's list is excessive. I do find it convenient though, even if I don't select my songs from that list - at least when I type in the BookID of a song for myself, it "remembers" if I have any key change for it - that alone is a nice feature. It really isn't a huge deal if I can or can't use the list for myself - my initial question was really just posed in the hopes of finding out what the "point of diminishing return" was, if there was such a thing. :-) Thanks again!