database rebuild didnt include edited songs

[bryant]

Last night I edited a few songs with "tools - edit songs" on hoster. I changed a few titles and authors to make them correct. However, when I copied that HD hoster sng folder to my backup HD, then rebuilt the database on the backup laptop with that backup HD, the edited songs were not fixed when I used the backup laptop and HD. The newly added aand reimported songs were all there, but not the edited ones.

Is there another database file in the Hoster folder on the c drive of the original laptop that needs to be copied into the C drive of the backup laptop? To make these changes visible!

[mindonstrike]

Last night I edited a few songs with "tools - edit songs" on hoster. I changed a few titles and authors to make them correct. However, when I copied that HD hoster sng folder to my backup HD, then rebuilt the database on the backup laptop with that backup HD, the edited songs were not fixed when I used the backup laptop and HD. The newly added aand reimported songs were all there, but not the edited ones.

Is there another database file in the Hoster folder on the c drive of the original laptop that needs to be copied into the C drive of the backup laptop? To make these changes visible!
First of all which version of Hoster are we talking about.

Please clarify what you are trying to do.
Are you copying your songs.mdb database to another computer and trying to make that work? or are you actually copying edited kma files to your backup.

Sam

[bryant]

Newest version oh hoster, as of yeaterday 3.310 (but not 3.311).

I am backing up my kma folder to another drive. The I rebuild the database with that other drive to a backup laptop.

All the newly added and reimported songs are on both computers after the rbuild.

Before the backup I edited some song names and authors. After copying all the new kma files to another drive and rebuilding to a backup laptop, that laptop didn't show that the newly edited song names were changed. In other words, the backup laptop with the newly rebuilt database still had the old song names as the main laptop did before I edited them on the main laptop.

[mindonstrike]

Of the edited songs, were they some of the new ones or fixing songs you already had on both computers?

I'm just thinking that if it's the latter, either the new files aren't overwriting the old ones on your backup or possibly the rebuild doesn't realize the information has changed and so doesn't re-read the info.
Deleting the "songs" database file before the rebuild that should fix that.

If it's the former let me know and I will try and recreate it on my computer.

Sam

[Beavis]

i am having the same problem bryant. ive been editing the heck out of my songs (putting in weeks of time) and it seems to go right back to the original before i edited it. i dont know if it has anything to do with the upgrade ?

[Beavis]

i dont know if it has anything to do with it but when i edit my songs, i dont hit the apply key, i hit the enter key. hitting the enter key applies it on the screen.

[ddouglass]

You hit the Enter Key with cursor still in Box you are changing? All that does is set that box and move the cursor/highlight to the next location. You have to "Apply" the changes before moving on to next record.

[Beavis]

no, it updates it in the search box.

[bryant]

Of the edited songs, were they some of the new ones or fixing songs you already had on both computers?
Sam

I imported discs 721, 722, and 723 on my main show laptop internal drive C. I then changed the song names of six songs on disc number 907 using "edit songs" on the same main laptop.

I then updated (copied) the main laptop to the external HD. This is where my backup kma files are kept.

I then took the external HD and hooked it up to the backup laptop and rebuilt the database so all new information (files) would be recognized.

Disc 721, 722, and 723 showed all there songs, however, disc 907 STILL had the wrong songnames as the main laptop had before I edited.

My prognosis is that edited info such as title and author names may not be stored in the kma files.

[Beavis]

i agree bryant, it only works on the one computer, when i transfer my kma's to my back-up computer, the info stays the same as if i didnt edit them at all.

i dont think its really editing the kma's.

admin any word on this ???

[billyo]

i kinda have the same problem i imported a cd about a month go..for some reason this cd didnt have the brand name on it but it has the id # so i typed in the id # instead of the brand name..since i found out now the brand of the cd i tried to edit the cd and re-typed the correct name..did the whole bit..updated my song data base..etc..still have the disc id instead of the brand name..

[mindonstrike]

no, it updates it in the search box.
I'll be darned. You're right! I edited an artist name and title using enter instead of apply, it updated on the list and then displayed the edit when I added it to the playlist.

[mindonstrike]

I imported discs 721, 722, and 723 on my main show laptop internal drive C. I then changed the song names of six songs on disc number 907 using "edit songs" on the same main laptop.

I then updated (copied) the main laptop to the external HD. This is where my backup kma files are kept.

I then took the external HD and hooked it up to the backup laptop and rebuilt the database so all new information (files) would be recognized.

Disc 721, 722, and 723 showed all there songs, however, disc 907 STILL had the wrong songnames as the main laptop had before I edited.

My prognosis is that edited info such as title and author names may not be stored in the kma files.
ALL database info is stored in the KMA header.

I did this experiment with my laptop and had no problems but I'm using 3312 so maybe you should try it with yours.

On the computer you originally edited songs in, check to see that those edits are still there, goto rebuild database just to see that it is pointed at the right folders, close Hoster. Go to your database folder and delete the "songs" file in your database folder (I deleted backup and temp as well). Open Hoster and it will automaticly rebuild the database. Now check those edited songs. If they reverted back then there is something wrong with Hoster. If the edits are still there then you must be doing something incorrect when transferring them to your other computer because rebuild gets ALL of it's info from the KMA header.

Sam

[Beavis]

its fine until i transfer them to mybackup drive, then they revert back.

[admin]

its fine until i transfer them to mybackup drive, then they revert back.
I don't know the answer, but it sure appears to me to be a Windows thang! :r

[Beavis]

are you telling me admin when i edit a song in hoster it actually edits the kma ???

[admin]

are you telling me admin when i edit a song in hoster it actually edits the kma ???
Yep... the header where the info is stored. :t

[bryant]

Yep... the header where the info is stored. :t

may it also true that even though the kma file is changed it is not picked up as a "modified" file bty windows and will NOT be recognized as such when folders are updated and backed up

If so, then how doe we back up those files from backup prorams that only change the recognized "modified" files?

In other words, I may been editing and adding a lot of files lately, but when I have been backing up the HD of the laptop, I now have a backup containing a lot of different information than the original. (edits not included). that's not good?

Any solutions.

[Beavis]

may it also true that even though the kma file is changed it is not picked up as a "modified" file bty windows and will NOT be recognized as such when folders are updated and backed up

If so, then how doe we back up those files from backup prorams that only change the recognized "modified" files?

In other words, I may been editing and adding a lot of files lately, but when I have been backing up the HD of the laptop, I now have a backup containing a lot of different information than the original. (edits not included). that's not good?

Any solutions.


i agree.

i worked my a$$ off edited my database and when i sent it to my backup computer it was all lost. i understand i can go back to my original computer and nothing has changed but i edited using both computers for hours at a time, many hours at a time.

[bryant]

Beavis,
I think what you can do is to make a complete backup of the original computers kma folder to your backup HD although that usually takes several hours of waitin around!

[bryant]

Beavis,
I think what you can do is to make a complete backup of the original computers kma folder to your backup HD although that usually takes several hours of waitin around!

that's prolly what I'll have to do. But it should seem that we should NOT have to back up 80 gigabytes of kma files every time we edit one or two songs

[gd123]

Q. Editing - What happens?
A. Header is changed, and, the Songs.MDB is Changed accordingly.

Q. Can I copy my EDITED KMAs to a Different Computer?
A. Yes. But, in order for Hoster to RECOGNIZE the EDITED KMAs on the BACKUP Computer, you MUST, ALSO, copy the "changed" SONGS.MDB.

Q. Why does the Songs.MDB need to be copied along with the Edited KMAs?
A. Because, when you do a SEARCH or ADD a Track to the PLAYLIST, Hoster populates the SEARCH Fields and the PLAYLIST with info FROM THE SONGS.MDB. (This is why you are NOT seeing the changes on the BACKUP Computer. The BACKUP Computer is ACCESSING the UNCHANGED SONGS.MDB)

Q. Well then, when does Hoster read the HEADER?
A. The HEADER is ONLY READ during a REBUILD.

Q. What if I have my KMAs in a DIFFERENT FOLDER on my Backup Computer?
A. Then simply copying your SONGS.MDB will not work. You MUST have your KMAs in the EXACT Folder on your BACKUP Computer as the FOLDER on the Computer you performed the EDITS.
Ex.: Edit Computer - KMAs located:
C:\Program Files\Micro Technology Unlimited\Hoster\Songs.

Then, your BACKUP Computer must have the SAME PATH.

Otherwise, you will need to EDIT the SONGS.MDB's "PATH" COLUMN to point to the DRIVE\FOLDER on the BACKUP Computer where your KMAs are located.

Or, if you are not familiar with editing the Songs.MDB, simply, REBUILD the DATABASE on the BACKUP Computer.

You need to use a File Utility Program that can perform a COMPARE FOLDER function. The COMPARE FOLDER will TAG all CHANGED files and ONLY SELECT those files to be copied to the BACKUP Computer. No need to copy the COMPLETE KMA Folder.

[ddouglass]

may it also true that even though the kma file is changed it is not picked up as a "modified" file bty windows and will NOT be recognized as such when folders are updated and backed up

If so, then how doe we back up those files from backup prorams that only change the recognized "modified" files?

In other words, I may been editing and adding a lot of files lately, but when I have been backing up the HD of the laptop, I now have a backup containing a lot of different information than the original. (edits not included). that's not good?

Any solutions.

If this is the case then the "Date Modified" column in Explorer will show no change to current date/time just after you edit it. I think you will find that this is changed and when this date changes then the "Archive" bit is set so that backup programs can find those files that have changed and back them up

Beavis compare the Date Modified between the two computers of an edited file. If the "backup" date is older then you were not sucessful in copying the "new" file to the backup computer.

[Beavis]

problem is i started on my backup computer then went to my show computer.

i did alot of work on both not knowing this would happen. i dont remember this happening before.

ive started all over using my show computer and when i get done i will copy them over and check dale.

[bryant]

On the computer you originally edited songs in, check to see that those edits are still there, goto rebuild database just to see that it is pointed at the right folders, close Hoster. Go to your database folder and delete the "songs" file in your database folder (I deleted backup and temp as well). Open Hoster and it will automaticly rebuild the database. Now check those edited songs. If they reverted back then there is something wrong with Hoster. If the edits are still there then you must be doing something incorrect when transferring them to your other computer because rebuild gets ALL of it's info from the KMA header.

Sam

sa,
I think beavis has determined that there is something wrong with Hoster, according to your experiment. Now what do we do as the workaround? As I stated last post, is it our only hope to recopy the entire kma folder every time we make only one edit? That's really a "lengthy process", is it not?
Bryant

[bryant]

Or, if you are not familiar with editing the Songs.MDB, simply, REBUILD the DATABASE on the BACKUP Computer.
This is what i did as explained in my second or third post. All the new discs I imported did have new "modified dates" on them, but apparaently edited kma's did not". So i know my backup hard drive when used on my backup computer still contains all the new kma's, i have used it often (as my main one ends up in shop) and all new files always make it over.

The path in the backup HD is the same as the main computer except for the "C" is replaced by"E"?

So now knowing this, can you please state in a few short steps EXACTLY what I must do.
Thank you very much.
Bryant

[bryant]

compare the Date Modified between the two computers of an edited file. If the "backup" date is older then you were not sucessful in copying the "new" file to the backup computer.

This was one of the things I did look for when I first noticed the problem. I saw that the six or so files I edited on disc 907 were still dated as the same as the rest of the songs on disc 907(ones that WERE NOT changed)., indicating the backup program will never get them, and hasn't gotten all the prior ones either.

I know in Virtual DJ you have to copy a small file over to the backup computer (virtual DJ database.xml) for the only way for edited songs to be seen on the backup.

Is this precisely the same deal as Hoster.

1) Backup songs to external backup drive.
2) Copy songs database file over to backup computer
3) Then rebuild database on backup computer with the backup hard Drive hooked up.

Is this my only recourse, In other words, is this what has to be done every time?

Please help and thanx so far.

Bryant

[mindonstrike]

I reinstalled 3310 on 2 of my computers to fully check this out
This is what I did: I imported 14 songs from a disk (SC8989), put them in the playlist and checked them out. I then went to edit songs and added "edit BR" (for Bryant) to the title of the first 7 seven tracks of that disk. Checked them in the playlist and noted the change in title. Checked the date and time stamp on them through windows and noted the appropriate files had new modification times. I copied all 14 of them to my external HD and moved it to the other computerand rebuilt the database using the external drive and added the tracks to the playlist and noted all of the edited names were present and they played with no problems.

To try and recreate Beavis's problem I cut and pasted those files from the external HD to my computer, deleted the songs, backup songs and temp database files and rebuilt the database, and again checked them in the playlist. I then went to edit songs and changed the BR in the first 7 song titles to BE. Checked them on the playlist and noted the change, I checked the time stamp in Windows again and noted the change and then copied them back onto my external HD and from there copied them back to the original computer. When Windows asked me if I wanted to replace the origianl files I told it yes to all. I then rebuilt the database on that computer and all the files that were BR in the title were now BE.

My conclusion was that Hoster is changing the header information on the individual files like it should, not just changing the songs.mdb database file, so I can so no Hoster related reason why they aren't changing for you guys.

Sam

[mindonstrike]

This was one of the things I did look for when I first noticed the problem. I saw that the six or so files I edited on disc 907 were still dated as the same as the rest of the songs on disc 907(ones that WERE NOT changed)., indicating the backup program will never get them, and hasn't gotten all the prior ones either.I just noticed the mention that you use a backup program. I do all mine manually so I'm not familiar how these work but could there be a setting relating to modified files that's not set correctly?

I would try moving them manually one time and if it works then you'll know there's a problem with your backup program.

Sam

[admin]

Beavis,
I think what you can do is to make a complete backup of the original computers kma folder to your backup HD although that usually takes several hours of waitin around!
Yes, that is what I was going to post.

Study your backup software. There should be some way to make it behave and backup the modified files.

Humm.... try this. Note the MODIFIED DATE on a KMA file. Edit that file in Tools > Edit Songs and click the APPLY button to update the KMA Header. View the MODIFIED DATE on that KMA file again. If it is changed, then you have something to go on. If it is not changed, then we aren't updating the MODIFIED DATE. I tried it and the "Last Accessed" date changed, but not the Modified date. What do you all find?

[admin]

Q. Editing - What happens?
A. Header is changed, and, the Songs.MDB is Changed accordingly.

Q. Can I copy my EDITED KMAs to a Different Computer?
A. Yes. But, in order for Hoster to RECOGNIZE the EDITED KMAs on the BACKUP Computer, you MUST, ALSO, copy the "changed" SONGS.MDB.

Q. Why does the Songs.MDB need to be copied along with the Edited KMAs?
A. Because, when you do a SEARCH or ADD a Track to the PLAYLIST, Hoster populates the SEARCH Fields and the PLAYLIST with info FROM THE SONGS.MDB. (This is why you are NOT seeing the changes on the BACKUP Computer. The BACKUP Computer is ACCESSING the UNCHANGED SONGS.MDB)

Q. Well then, when does Hoster read the HEADER?
A. The HEADER is ONLY READ during a REBUILD.

Q. What if I have my KMAs in a DIFFERENT FOLDER on my Backup Computer?
A. Then simply copying your SONGS.MDB will not work. You MUST have your KMAs in the EXACT Folder on your BACKUP Computer as the FOLDER on the Computer you performed the EDITS.
Ex.: Edit Computer - KMAs located:
C:\Program Files\Micro Technology Unlimited\Hoster\Songs.

Then, your BACKUP Computer must have the SAME PATH.

Otherwise, you will need to EDIT the SONGS.MDB's "PATH" COLUMN to point to the DRIVE\FOLDER on the BACKUP Computer where your KMAs are located.

Or, if you are not familiar with editing the Songs.MDB, simply, REBUILD the DATABASE on the BACKUP Computer.

You need to use a File Utility Program that can perform a COMPARE FOLDER function. The COMPARE FOLDER will TAG all CHANGED files and ONLY SELECT those files to be copied to the BACKUP Computer. No need to copy the COMPLETE KMA Folder.
Excellent post! Welcome to our Forums. :)

Bryant, read the above and I think you will find a solultion, along with what Sam (Mindonstrike) just posted to you. If you manually copy the songs you edit over to your backup system, then rebuild the Song Database, all should work as expected.

[bryant]

I reinstalled 3310 on 2 of my computers to fully check this out
This is what I did: I imported 14 songs from a disk (SC8989), put them in the playlist and checked them out. I then went to edit songs and added "edit BR" (for Bryant) to the title of the first 7 seven tracks of that disk. Checked them in the playlist and noted the change in title. Checked the date and time stamp on them through windows and noted the appropriate files had new modification times. I copied all 14 of them to my external HD and moved it to the other computerand rebuilt the database using the external drive and added the tracks to the playlist and noted all of the edited names were present and they played with no problems.


Sam

This is what happened:
You imported a new disc into the system, edited or not it was a new file. The ones you edited were new files as edited. Windows should and did pick up those new files.

You needed to edit a file that was already in the system
to truly test my condition.
.

[bryant]

Humm.... try this. Note the MODIFIED DATE on a KMA file. Edit that file in Tools > Edit Songs and click the APPLY button to update the KMA Header. View the MODIFIED DATE on that KMA file again. If it is changed, then you have something to go on. If it is not changed, then we aren't updating the MODIFIED DATE. I tried it and the "Last Accessed" date changed, but not the Modified date. What do you all find?

The modified dates were all unchanged on edited songs.
Therefore, backup programs or even windows will not sort them out as newly modified.

[bryant]

I just noticed the mention that you use a backup program. I do all mine manually so I'm not familiar how these work but could there be a setting relating to modified files that's not set correctly?

Sam

sam,
Also, before I had the backup program which really does do a nice job, I manually checked for modified dates in the original kma folder and copied those beyond the last date.
Even using this method, we will always NEVER GET the modified files because their date did not change!
Bryant

[bryant]

Excellent post! Welcome to our Forums. :)

Bryant, read the above and I think you will find a solultion, along with what Sam (Mindonstrike) just posted to you. If you manually copy the songs you edit over to your backup system, then rebuild the Song Database, all should work as expected.

I see, but he was answering questions with questions and then offering alternatives on top of that.

I guess I need precisely what to do in 2 or 3 stated steps before I do anything. I just don't wanna lose any file data here.

And what about all those previously edited songs I did not take notice of before (I assumed they were being copied along with the newly added files,but they weren't).

[bryant]

What might of happened in the past as well, is either me or my g/f, during a show, would come home and say, " I edited a few songs that needed corrections" A week or so later, perhaps, I would add some songs, copy em over, rebuild the database on the backup laptop, and assume the edited ones were all in too, now we know they(the edits) never got in there

[admin]

You have edited files going back some time that there is no way to find them. Thus, the only option I see is:

1. Copy all your files to your second system.
2. Run Build Songs Database on the destination system

We'll see if there is something we can modify to make Edit Songs change the MODIFIED date.

[bryant]

Great, thanx.

Also, what would be the precise steps in the future.
Are these required?
1) edit songs
2)note which songs (files) were edited.
3)When backing up, copy all new files
and also those that were noted as "edited only".
4) rebuild database.


Is this the procedure for now?