How to prevent employee theft by copying hard drive

[dlessnau]

I use the Holster Laptop for my shows and have 750 cdg's imported. I have now hired a KJ to do shows I cannot do myself.

Is there anyway to protect myself from the KJ copying my songs on the laptop hard drive and going into business for himself?

Seems like anyone with computer ability could get many thousands of dollars worth of songs, and weeks of importing those songs, in a few hours, for free.

[admin]

We had not addressed this specific need of honest businessmen who could get their songs ripped off by employees.

We are very close to having a new means to encrypt songs to only run on the Hoster they were recorded on, if you want to protect them. This will also allow us to sell songs that only run on the Hoter they are purchased from (Buy Now button clicked in Hoster to incorporate the Registration Code to protect them with).

If we wrote a batch processor to encrypt all your KMA songs, this would insure you are not ripped off. This would not be simple to write and easy to execute. I'll add that to our spec we are working on. :w

However, once encrypted, there will be NO WAY to remove the encryption.

[dlessnau]

That is good that you are working on the problem. However, the fix must be made to allow the songs on the backup harddrive to be re imported ,in the event of a hard drive failure on the laptop.

Also, if one were to purchase a new computer when new and better is available, one needs to be able to take the songs from the old computer and put them onto the new one.

I would never again in my life want to spend the hundred plus hours importing the same songs.

I must say the ai am VERY please with my Holster Laptop and Software and it has worked flawlessly since I purchased it. Makes a hard job a lot easier.

[quaizywabbit]

Is it possible to have the drive(s) encrypted to be used only with hoster, yet have an owner password to allow it's use on another hoster computer owned by the same company? In a sense it's kinda like having universal spare parts in inventory(interchangeability), so I'd need less of them.

It should not be a user entered password, but automatically detected. I suppose for that kind of scheme to work there would need a way for the owner to "tie" these computer's to a common
encryption scheme, perhaps during registration of each Hoster install.

[dlessnau]

Does anyone know how to encrypt the imported songs on the hard drive so that an employee with access to the laptop cannot copy them without a password?

[admin]

Originally posted by quaizywabbit
Is it possible to have the drive(s) encrypted to be used only with hoster, yet have an owner password to allow it's use on another hoster computer owned by the same company? In a sense it's kinda like having universal spare parts in inventory(interchangeability), so I'd need less of them.

It should not be a user entered password, but automatically detected. I suppose for that kind of scheme to work there would need a way for the owner to "tie" these computer's to a common
encryption scheme, perhaps during registration of each Hoster install.
You have no idea how hard it is to modify the Registration Security. It has taken us 5 years to get where we are today. :e

No, we won't consider protecting a hard drive. There is no way that we are aware of to prevent Windows Explorer from copying the songs off the "protected drive".

dlessnau, we are working on a command you will be able to execute to encrypt all your songs to play only on that Hoster. No quaizywabbit, once they are encrypted, they will ONLY run on that Hoster RegCode. That's the only way we can truly offer protection. I expect this to be in Hoster 2.3, which will be a free upgrade to those who have upgraded to 2.124. We should start beta testing 2.201 this or next week.

However, in 2.124, we now allow you to install Hoster on a backup computer if your show computer fails. Thus, the same encrypted songs (when we offer this) will run on the backup also. However.... this is your backup means in the event your show computer fails, NOT to run a second show with. :r

[kedmison]

Ok guys n gals, here's the situation and question:

I currently have my video coming out of my laptop via s-video. This connects down to a RCA "Y". One feed goes to the house big screen and the other to my 13"TV for the singers. I am wanting to replace my 13" tv with a Dell Flat screen computer monitor. What type of connection do I need to use to go from an RCA connection to the standard pin connection on the flat screen monitor?

Thanks,
Kelly

[dlessnau]

I can hardly wait for the new software allowing encrypting.

However, how would I handle this situation?:

I would encrypt the songs on my laptop. What about my songs on my external backup harddrive? Could I keep adding new songs to that harddrive, as backup, BEFORE they were encrypted on my laptop.

This is important, because I might want to purchase another laptop from you for use by my employees, and I will need to install the songs from the external harddrive onto the new laptop. I would not want to go through importing my discs again in my lifefitme.

If necessary, I would purchase another back up external harddive so I would be completely protected.

Please advise how the above would be handled.

[gduns - with the Lord]

if you are using win 2000, or xp pro. you could have a computer shop (if you dont know how) to set up a user account, without backup privileges. for your kj host to use. all he can do is see the songs, and play them not backup, or copy them. I have never done this, but they do this on our computers here at work all the time. it would offer you the protection you are looking for.

[kedmison]

If you are looking at you and your employee doing shows at the same time you will also need to make sure you have duplicate "original" music to back up what you're using.

Kelly

[dlessnau]

I use Windows XP Home. Will your idea work with that?

[gduns - with the Lord]

I think it is, you need to talk to a computer shop they can tell you for shure. I think the only difference is that you cannot log onto a domain with xp home. But you should be able to set up a user and set permissions. You would be set up as the administrator, and he would be setup as a guest user. (not a power user). That would allow him to execute programs, just not to backup or copy. I believe I am right about this.

[dlessnau]

I just talked to a computer tech about this, and he said they could make the Folder that the Holster songs are in, password protected. That way, if someone wanted to copy the songs, they would need the password.

Sounds too easy to me, but I will check it out further.

[gduns - with the Lord]

COOL, Good luck!!

[dlessnau]

Thank you gduns for your user account idea. That is the one that solved the problem. I went to a computer shop and they set up a user account for use by the person that does my shows when I am not there.

He logs on to the computer with his password and he can use Holster to play songs and that is all to which he has access. He cannot to anything else on the computer. When I log on with my password, I have access to everything.

Cost me $47.00 to protect myself from a big time rip off. Now I don't have to worry about encrypting the songs, and any potential problems that could cause.

[gduns - with the Lord]

Glad to be able to help thanks for letting us know.

[crazycarl]

that is a great Idea g_guns and so easy I'll be doing the same thing soon. I still think you should be on MTU'S Payroll. What do you think DAVE HINT HINT!!!!!!!!:g
Crazycarl

[gduns - with the Lord]

carl,
But I get my satisfaction helping out! MTU has done so much for me, and Hoster has made my hobby more fun than work. One day it may be a job.

[dlessnau]

The guru that said he could lock down my computer from copying goofed. He tells me it can't be done on Home, only on Professional. He set up a user account for my employee but he still could copy the songs if he wanted to.

However, besides that, when I got home, I went into the employee's access account. I put in his password, and guess what? Holster could not find the files. I think it only allows me to access the files to play songs.

Disaster. However, I set a restore point before taking the computer to the guru, and I put it back the way it was, and all is working again.

Now I have lost confidence in guru, and won't put on Professional as I bet I would have the same problem.

I am now thinking, one can make the song folder private with a password. But maybe that would stop Holster from working to.

I don't know.

I wish Bryan would give some input to this post, to see if what I am trying to do is possible. How do you get him to see the post?

[George]

This is what the XP Home help file says about setting up accounts.


User accounts overview
User accounts personalize Windows for each person who is sharing a computer. You can choose your own account name, picture, and password, and choose other settings that will apply only to you. A user account gives you a personalized view of your own files, a list of favorite Web sites, and a list of recently visited Web pages. With a user account, documents you create or save are stored in your own My Documents folder, separate from the documents of others who also use the computer.

If you use a password for your user account, all of your files are kept secure and private so that other users cannot see them. However, you can still mark certain items as shared if you want other people to be able to access them. If you do not use a password for your user account, other people will have access to your account and be able to see all of your folders and files.

If you have a user account and you change computer settings, such as the type size or the screen saver, those settings will apply only to your account.

As a user with a computer administrator account, you can create, delete, and change all user accounts on the computer. You can create as many accounts on the computer as you want, and have full access to all accounts on the computer. For information about the types of accounts available, click Related Topics.

It appears the help section considers it doable, and probably tells how. Didn't search any further. Just wanted to see if it was in the XPHOME Manual.

George

[gduns - with the Lord]

our IT person says, like I said before you can set up as user as a user. as user is not allower to copy, modify, or backup computer. however he can use the programs is access is set. You need to let the guy you already paid to to it to go back and do it right. he goofed.

I know this, because there are files on this computer I can see and use, but not modify, or copy.

All conputer Guru's are not competent. you may even be able to do this yourself.

only a poweruser, or an administrator can copy modify, or backup files.

[dlessnau]

I suspect, as you do, that he goofed. He did not protect anything with his user name setup. However, I wonder about the fact that when I did access the Holster program using the new user name, Holster would not work. It did work, using my user name.

That is why I was hoping to get some input from Bryan on this thread to tell me if Holster will work, if a second person is set up with a user account. Holster might have safeguards to stop this.

If that is the case, another guru said I could password protect the Holster song file. But maybe Holster would not work that way either.

So far, I have not heard from Bryan, so today I will try to reach him by phone and see if I am wasting my time with all of this.

[gduns - with the Lord]

if you saw what the guru did then you know there is a menu that lets you set the permission levels of a user. you can also set directory permissions. for directory permissions, you can go to my computer select the drive, select the directory, and select properties. a directory can be set for read only. you can deselect copy and modify. this will allow him to use hoster, and it will read the .kma files in that directory.

I think you will have to put your .hst (the playlist files) in another directory with full permissions. that will let him read/write to the playlists. otherwise the hoster cannot utilize the playlists properly.

Sorry if I didnt explain all this earlier, but I thought the "IT" person would know what he was doing.

[dlessnau]

What you say makes good sense. It seems like something I probably can do myself. The person that worked on my computer installed something called "Tweak" the let him do what ever he was doing. I don't think such a program is needed.

The part you mention about putting the hst files in another directory I don't understand. I know how to make a directory, but I don't know how to make Holster put the play lists into that directory, and use it.

I also would like to know, how you become aware that I made an addition to this thread, and answered it. Since it is my tread, I get an email when someone posts, but I don't think you do???

[gduns - with the Lord]

everyone that posts here gets e-mail.

putting the .hst files in another directory is for the playlist I rename mine to the name of the venue I am playing. Hoster makes the 001.hst, 002.hst etc those are the playlist files.

I rename mine like Bounty.hst. this is the playlist you load when you load a playlist.

[MTUSUPPORT]

Dlessnau,
I get a notification for every post in the forum. I didn't have any input on this thread, but I was reading it. GDUN's knows what he is doing with this stuff, I have never tried this so I am learning from what he is stating.

This is why I have not posted anything in this thread, it is a grey area for me.

[dlessnau]

OK Bryan.

GDUN:

I hate to be a bother, but I still don't know how put playlist in different folder no matter what you name it, and then make Holster save the list to that folder.

I do not save any playlists. At the end of the evening, I delete any remaining songs. However, Holster will then save the empty playlist.

Seems like I could always make a new playlist to start each evening, but when I went to shut down, Holster would try to put the file in the song folder, to which changing and copying rights are denied, and it would hang up.

[MTUSUPPORT]

Dlessnau,
The Folder where your Playlist files are automatically stored is located in the folder that you have set on the Import Tracks Tab. If you click on the Import Tracks Tab, Save To Folder button. Change this to a new location and your .hst files will then be stored in this location.

[gduns - with the Lord]

exactly.
and I save a playlist for the venue I am playing at because a lot of times I only have a few songs that I will sing. I keep them from show to show, so I dont have to reenter them.

[dlessnau]

OH HAPPY DAY! I think this is going to work. I will advise if I succeed with the fix.

[dlessnau]

I changed where the playlist is stored.

Then I made a user account with limited access and a password. I then booted up using the new user account. I was planning on going into the Holster Songs file and make it read only and deselect copy and modify.

However, before I did the above, I tried to open Holster. It will not open. A box come up that says:

The Microsoft Jet database engine cannot open the file c/Program Files/Micro Technology Unlimited/Hoster/databases/Bucket.mdb. It is already opned exclusively by another user, or you need permission to view it's data.

If you just try to proceed anyway, a box asks you to build the database. I tried to do that but it would not work either.

I then just tried to go into the Holster Song Folder by right clicking on the folder and selecting properties. It is already read only, but there is no place to deselect copy and modify.

Lost again. About to give up.

[gduns - with the Lord]

I am sorry, I am at work right now, and dont have access to hoster, I will try to take time tonight an figure out the setup for you. hang tight, if you will, I will get back to you.

[MTUSUPPORT]

Dlessnau,
You need to make sure that you have access to this folder also under this User. It must have Write Permisions on this folder. Or you will get this error message.

[dlessnau]

I don't know how to give the folder write permissions, but will take a look at it while I am logged on as the user and see what I shall see.

It looks to me, that the key to the whole issue is the Holster Song folder. If there was a way to make it so it could not be copied or modified without a password, the problem would be solved.

ADMIN NOTE: The KMA files are really what is needed to be protected, not the Songs.mdb database, as that can be rebuild given the KMA files.

If I get Holster to work by fixing write permissions, while in user account, the file can still be copied just by pluging in an external harddrive and draging the folder to it.

ADMIN NOTE: I'm not the final word on this, but if you have your KMA songs on a hard drive, and that can be removed and copyed, then all your work on creating a new User with limited permissions is to no value. All they have to do is put the hard drive on a second computer and copy the KMA files.

BTW: As the old saying goes, "say what you like about me, just spell my name right." It is H O S T E R , not HOLSTER. :w

[gduns - with the Lord]

go to my computer, click the hard drive, find the folder, and right click it. pick sharing (when logged on as administrator) you can set up the folder to share as you wish to.

[dlessnau]

When I do as you say, the only thing under sharing is where it tells me if I want to share it with other users of this computer, I should drag it to the shared document folder.


It then says, if I want to make the folder private so only I have access, I should select the following check box.

The box is greyed out.

There is nothing anywhere to deselect copying and modifying.

Maybe, I need XP Pro like the computer whiz said.

[dlessnau]

Bryan:

Please note that this thread has had 349 views in 30 days since it started. There is an interest in protecting the song file from being copied, as no one wants to give thousands of dollars worth of songs to someone for free, and have that person take over your job.

So if there is any way to stop the copying of the Holster Song file, other than by encrypting, I think that solution should be on your list of things to do. I for sure can't protect that file.

Maybe gduns will solve the puzzle.

[George]

DLESSNAU SAID:

Then I made a user account with limited access and a password. I then booted up using the new user account. I was planning on going into the Holster Songs file and make it read only and deselect copy and modify.

However, before I did the above, I tried to open Holster. It will not open. A box come up that says:

The Microsoft Jet database engine cannot open the file c/Program Files/Micro Technology Unlimited/Hoster/databases/Bucket.mdb. It is already opned exclusively by another user, or you need permission to view it's data.


Now this is reaslly going to be wild, but based on the above, would it work to make Hoster a "user" of the shared folder where the songs are stored???

Come on, Gduns, make that one work. I'm not tech, but it seems plausible that Hoster could gain access to the songlist folder as a user..

George

[gduns - with the Lord]

I can do it on windows 2000 just as I described. But I just tried it on xp pro, and got the same results you did. I will work on it a while, And get back with you when I have a solution.

[mikedomi]

dlessnau you said to Bryan
(Please note that this thread has had 349 views in 30 days since it started. There is an interest in protecting the song file from being copied,)

but 99.9% of the post are between 3 of you so if you really look at this
that is about off the top of my head not even a 1/2 of a percent
I truly think if more people wanted this.
this thread would have allot more post in it
most of us are looking to make sure we don't get screwed by this
once again ill say this
NO ONE LIKED WHEN SOUNDCHOICE DID MEDIA CLOCK SO PLEASE DONT ASK HOSTER TO BE LIKE SOUNDCHOICE

and you talk admin in to encrypting the songs to meet YOUR NEEDS AND A FEW OTHERS
I understand your need but 1 ??? please
hod did you stop them from copying your disc ???

ADMIN NOTE: The below paragraph is STRICTLY MIKE'S personal desires. :e It DOES NOT represent even 1% of the Hoster market. It is NOT standard, and will NOT be considered as even within the NORMAL distribution of Hoster User's needs. Sorry Mike, you need to realize you are way outside the normal users desires here. :r

a lot of us have 3 or more copies of hoster and cant afford
3 250 gig harddrives so we move it to the computer we are going to use that night
here is the break down
1 laptop
2 lunch box
3 rack mount

if you encrypt the songs then no one can do this
and the more noise you make about it the more attenion you bring that it can be done

maybe you need your kJ/DJ on a contract out lining your needs dos and don't so you will have some kind of legal recourse if it does happen

ps most people loss there kj job to another kJ not because of there song selection but because of there showmen ship
ive seen kj with 30.000 song loss there job to kj with 5000 song and pack the place 3 nights a week

i dont have a problem with what you want to do but sometime when you get a ball rolling you cant stop it

and i have had some one ask me if i new are you really a kj
or do you work for one of the disc manufactor because we know that they get in here and post things like this

all have a good night mike

[gduns - with the Lord]

I can get hoster to read the database. What the deal is when you switch users, the new user has to set up the database as to where it is read from.

you go into the tools\build songs batabases and set where the database is ie C:\Program Files\Micro Technology Unlimited\Hoster\Databases\

then you don't get the jetengine database error. I did this and got hoster to play as a limited user. You really need to see an it person and they can set you up to make this run the way you want it to.

I am used to using windows 2000 and know how to make it work, and I know for a fact you can make the directory where your songs reside where no one else can copy it. our It person told me today he does it all the time. Obvously he wouldnt tell me how, then I could undo it on my work computer.

sorry I couldnt be of more help.

[kedmison]

I'm with Mike...I read many of the psots, but I don't agree with all of them. I find them interesting and something very interesting. BUT, I don't won't my kma files where I can't get back into them. I buy all my disc from Ebay. I then compile them using Microstudio. From time to time I find better versions. I can then go in and change the version in Hoster. If it were locked up I couldn't do that. I realize I'm a one man outfit so I don't have to worry about someone stealing my songs. My 2 cents.

Kelly

ADMIN NOTE: First, we would NOT require everyone to encrypt their songs. It would be a VOLUNTARY act, by the person making the decision. I have posted on page 4 that we would probably make the ENCRYPTOR a BATCH processor file that is NOT called from within Hoster. It can be installed, encrypt the KMA files, then removed... IF... you wanted to encrypt. If not, don't do it. :r

[dlessnau]

gduns:

I see in the above posts that for some reason, others don't want a simple fix to avoid a rip off one's songs. What harm could it do?

However, I also don't want the files tied up in any way so I can't get into them. I am trying to fix it so OTHERS can't get in. How can some think am not a KJ, and might work for a disc manufacturer? Does not make sense. I'm not talking encrypting here, just limited access. Besides, from what I have read, if Hoster offers encrypting, it will be for the owner of the software to decide if they want to use it or not.

In any case, I am going to have a well recommended, computer tech see if he can fix the directory, since you know it can be done. I'll have him study your posts for guidelines on what to do, and post again later on his the success or failure.

I might have a legal contract made between me and my KJ, but I am thinking that might just give him the idea of how easy it is to copy the songs. Up to now, it probably never crossed his mind. So the contract could do more harm then good.

Thanks for your help.

[mikedomi]

dlessnau i think your a kj and i know what admin said about
it being a choice but i have all so seen things change in the 25th hour and i just want to make sure that it stays a choice and that it is not shoved down your thourth later and i think 99.9% of the people who own hoster want the choice

David
I had a karaoke owner ask me this
if there is a tab or a menu how do I stop my kJ from encrypting my songs when I send them out on a show you know sometimes people can do very mean things

you said

We had not addressed this specific need of honest businessmen who could get their songs ripped off by employees.

will some one please tell me the diff between some one ripping off hoster songs from the businessmen and disc being copied from the businessmen
i dont see them writting sound choice saying will you protect my disc from being copied

ok this is great i can go for protect (if)
now here are the ??????

1) what happens if there laptop is stolen and they have a back hard drive will the new copy of hoster they buy play the back up hard drive songs

2) you know people go in places they don't belong
what happens if a owner sends out a kJ to do a job and the kJ goes in hoster and hits the tab to encrypt the songs just to screw the owner of the company then what

3) how can you stop this from happing

4) knowing what I know about hoster the only way I think this should be in hoster is if in the install shield. it ask you at the time of install (do you want to install the encryption now) yes or no I think this would please most
I would go for this

but I don't think it should be anywhere in hosters menus or tools tab if you don't install it from the start you don't see it

and if you change your mind
then you just go to modify and install it that way you are safe .if you don't want to encrypt your songs

dont you think this would be a good way to do this
anyway thinking out load have a good day mike

[dlessnau]

Yes, I worry about those problems with encrypting. That is why I'm trying to fix it so only I can copy or modify my song file, with no encrypting involved.

One thing about copying a disc unauhorized and copying my song file, is that in about one hour, someone can have 750 songs. At least, someone trying to copy my discs, has a LOT of work to do.

Right now, I am going to upgrade to XP Pro and then figure out about how to set the write permissions, update the data base, and then I'll have my new expert make the user account only able to play songs and nothing else.

He said he can do it if I can get Hoster to open, so I'll post again when I succeed or fail.

I am a KJ. In my profile you can see my website.

[admin]

Originally posted by mikedombroski
David
I had a karaoke owner ask me this
if there is a tab or a menu how do I stop my kJ from encrypting my songs when I send them out on a show you know sometimes people can do very mean things

1) what happens if there laptop is stolen and they have a back hard drive will the new copy of hoster they buy play the back up hard drive songs

2) you know people go in places they don't belong
what happens if a owner sends out a kJ to do a job and the kJ goes in hoster and hits the tab to encrypt the songs just to screw the owner of the company then what

3) how can you stop this from happing

4) knowing what I know about hoster the only way I think this should be in hoster is if in the install shield. it ask you at the time of install (do you want to install the encryption now) yes or no I think this would please most
I would go for this

but I don't think it should be anywhere in hosters menus or tools tab if you don't install it from the start you don't see it

and if you change your mind then you just go to modify and install it that way you are safe .if you don't want to encrypt your songs

dont you think this would be a good way to do this
anyway thinking out load have a good day mike
NO MIKE, I DON'T THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA AT ALL :e

IF we encrypt songs at all, it will be a batch program that is NOT embedded in Hoster. It would NOT be accessable from Hoster, but run separately. It could easily be REMOVED from the computer after encrypting the songs, and stored on a CDROM for future use.

Of course, the owner would want to keep a hard drive with the unencrypted songs, and only send the encrypted songs out with the employee. :w

[dlessnau]

If one can easily keep a hard drive with unencrypted songs and easily add unencrypted songs to the back up, that is all I need to hear.

I was worried that when encrypting became available, I could not keep adding unencrypted songs to my back up. I would want to encrypt the songs on the lap top, but when adding new songs, be able to add them to my backup unencrypted.

Please tell me if the above is the way it is going to work, and I will stop what I am doing now and relax.

Just need a one word answer.

Yes :)

or

No :m

[admin]

Originally posted by dlessnau
If one can easily keep a hard drive with unencrypted songs and easily add unencrypted songs to the back up, that is all I need to hear.

Please tell me if the above is the way it is going to work, and I will stop what I am doing now and relax.

Just need a one word answer.

YES! :g IF we do it at all. There is a LOT of work for us to do this, so I need to see some payback on development. It is NOT what most users want, and Mike D. is a good example of this. Therefore, we have some serious thinking to do before I would take our valuable time to do this.

Right now, we are doing a major overhaul of Hoster in the following areas:

1. The Add HD Track and Add CD Track dialog boxes are gone. They are now embeded on the Playlist screen,with buttons to select which TYPE of file to add. The fields for the different TYPEs share the same location. The Add CD Track imports to a standard file, which remains on the drive if Hoster or the CPU crashes so you can open the Playlist Project (.hst file) and continue playing, with your CDG TYPE files still available. CDG TYPE files now key change also! :g

2. We are adding importing and playback of Audio CD tracks as a WMA file TYPE stored in a new wma.mdb database and songbook printing.

3. We are adding importing and playback of VCD and DVD tracks that can be added in the Playlist with any other TYPE of files.

4. We are adding PLAYBACK (no importing) of MP3 audio tracks to add in the Playlist with any other TYPE of files.

5. We are adding PLAYBACK (no importing) of MP3+G karaoke files to add in the Playlist with any other TYPE of files.

We are considering a PLAY ONLY version of Hoster, that has no import capability.

So, this encryption is at the bottom of our list at this time. :s

[dlessnau]

:g ::g :g :g :g :g :g :g :g

[mikedomi]

if your going to do this i would say to you to keep 2 back up hard drives with your unencrypted songs because
if you only have one and it dies you are out of luck
you will have to import all your songs over again

of coruse you will still have your encrypted songs but as you know they will only play on 1 computre and if you have more than one set of disc and you have two computres 1 encrypted hard drive will not play on both computres only on the one it was encrypted for if i understood what admin said

well i am done said what i had to say thats it back to more important things
all have a good day mike

[dlessnau]

Two back up harddrives is a good idea. Anyone who has imported their songs knows it takes a long time, and does not want to ever do it again.

The fantastic reward of being able to use a computer instead of discs to do a show is well worth the time to import, but once is enough.

[dlessnau]

I have installed XP Pro. Hoster is working OK but I get an error right after I boot up the computer.

It says:

RUNDLL
Error in irprops.cpl
Missing entry:
bluetoothauthenticationagent

I click OK, and Hoster works, but I sure wish I would not have to see that error everytime I boot up. Anyone know how to fix it?

User account still does not allow Hoster to work. gduns is going to try to help me by telephone this evening.

I wish I never started this all. Hard on the nerves.

[dlessnau]

I called MicoSoft free installation support and they fixed the problem by having me delete the bluetooth line from the registry. The support person did a nice job, but he was in India taking away some American's job.

[dlessnau]

:g

Thanks to gduns (Gary) I have succeeding in making a user account for my employees to use that plays Hoster, but hides my song files so they can't be copied.

It was a long time figuring it out, but once it was explained to me how to do it, it was not hard.

Tomorrow, when I am rested, as I have been messing with this all day, I will take the time to write out and post a detailed explaination how to do this, for those of you that have a need to protect your files.

You will not have to wait for MTU to take the time to set up encrypting. This simple fix, protects your data.

Thank you, Gary for all your help. You meet the nicest people on this forum.

Dave

[admin]

Originally posted by mikedombroski
if your going to do this i would say to you to keep 2 back up hard drives with your unencrypted songs because
if you only have one and it dies you are out of luck
you will have to import all your songs over again

of coruse you will still have your encrypted songs but as you know they will only play on 1 computre and if you have more than one set of disc and you have two computres 1 encrypted hard drive will not play on both computres only on the one it was encrypted for if i understood what admin said

well i am done said what i had to say thats it back to more important things
all have a good day mike
Mike, too much assumptions here. :r

Songs would be encrypted with a HOSTER REGISTRATION CODE, which can now be installed on 2 computers, and with MTU's help, moved to other computers if an emergency arises.

[admin]

dlessnau, the real question is not what limitations you add to the computer.

The real question is...

Can someone take the hard drive from that limited computer, and copy the kma files from it on a different computer?

If you are using a USB drive, to move it to another computer is as easy as unplugging it and plugging it into the other computer, even with the power on.

After you have everything set up and "protected", remove the hard drive with your KMA files, plug it into another computer and try to copy the KMA files. If you can, there is NO PROTECTION from theft in your method. :f

However, if you CANNOT read the KMA files on the second computer, then by all means let us all know! :c

[dlessnau]

"After you have everything set up and "protected", remove the hard drive with your KMA files, plug it into another computer and try to copy the KMA files. If you can, there is NO PROTECTION from theft in your method. "

I don't know if removing the hard drive will allow someone to get my songs or not, but I can assure you, I have a lot more protection today then I had yesterday. However, in my case, I have my hands on that computer every day right after my KJ does a show. So he would have to be fast, skilled, and motivated to steal now. Before it was EASY. Now it is HARD.

I feel if someone takes the hard drive, it would still have the same protections on the files as the old one, but I am not an expert so I really dont' know.

You said you probably wouldn't do the encrypting anyhow, because it is too much work, and there is not much interest. So what I did is better than nothing. If you do the encrypting, and it is fool proof, I might go that route.

[MTUSUPPORT]

Note to Admin for another Option on this.

We could make Hoster have the ability to be set to come up automatically when the computer is turned on. What this means is the OS is running, but not all the programs are loaded. The only thing that the user would beable to get to was Hoster and only what is in Hoster.

BPM Professional has this ability. This would need to be an option in Hoster.

The only downfall to this as some will agree is that you can't get to any other part of the system, but what is available through Hoster.

[dlessnau]

As long as you can see the files, they can be copied, what value would it be if only Hoster was running? That is all that is needed to copy the songs.

One must set up a user account so you can see the files and change them, but the person booted up on the user account cannot see the files.

I am now working on the instuctions for those interested in GDUNS and my method of protecting their song file, and will post it. No charge.

[dlessnau]

Here is how you set up your computer to with a user account and an administrator account, in such a way, that the user cannot see the file with the songs in it, and thus, cannot copy them for his own use.

This will work on Windows 2000 and XP Pro for sure, and probably on XP Home.

Before you do all of this, make a restore point. This can be done with XP, not sure about 2000. If you goof something up, you can then go back to the restore point before you goofed. Saved me many times in the past. :w

You log on under your administrator account.

The first thing you do is go to the control panel and set up a limited user account with a password. That account will be for your employee to use.

Then click on My Computer and click on the drive where Hoster is located.

Then clisk on the MTU folder and the Hoster folder should show. Right click on that and select Sharing.

It will have information about sharing under the network section. If there is a box to click to allow sharing, check it. If not, run the Wizard to set up a network. You don’t have to be online. Just check the boxes that have to do with not online set up. Set up to network with a computer in another room. When it asks you what room, check the box to continue without any more set up regarding where the other room is or what ever.

Click finish and it sets up a network. You then can check the box to allow sharing this folder. Then go back to the Hoster folder and left click on it. Then right click on database and select sharing. Check the box to allow sharing.

Then go to the drive that has the Hoster song folder and right click on it, select sharing, and check the box to allow sharing.

Log out from the administrator account and log on to the user account and open Hoster. Click the Import tab, and go to Tools at the top. Select “Build Song Database”. In the list box at the top, click and delete the Folder that is alredy there. Its default name is "Songs". Then Add the Folders for it to look for your songs. Browse to do this and add each Folder to put their paths in the Build Songs Database List Box.

Then at the bottom you have to put the path to your data base. You browse here also and click so it makes the path which is C:\program files\ micro technology unlimited\hoster\databases

Then click the "Build Song Database" command.

At this point you can go to your playlist and select new, and add track from HD. Then play a song.

Close Hoster, and log off from the user account. Log on to your administrator account, and go to My computer. Get to the folder that has the songs in it. Right click on it and select sharing. Then go to the General Tab and check the box to hide the file. Then when it asks, select “this folder only”.

This last part, I can’t remember well, but I think while you are in that folder you go to Tools and Folder Options, and in the list select show hidden files.

You will be able to see the folder and file while in the administrator account, but the user can not see the file. What he cannot see, he cannot copy.

Log off the Administrator and log on as user. Play a song. Then take a look at the drive where the song folder is located, and you will not see it.

Don't forget to set up a password for the administrator account so only you can get in. WRITE DOWN the password in a safe place you will REMEMBER where it is... or you are in BIG TROUBLE! :e :e :e

[mikedomi]

first of all you said
and with MTU's help, moved to other computers if an emergency arises.
let me tell you this is the first time you have ever said this to me or any one else I know of

2nd there has been so much said in this topic over the last year
who knows what to believe

3rd I just gave my opinion here it looks like that was wrong to do
so please don't take this wrong but remove all!!! my post in the thread named
how to prevent employee theft by coping hard drive

I am done with this thread

by the way David please come visit me in wash d.c. ill be glad to take you around and show you what the norm is here and in NY city I can think of about 4 companies and about 40 djs/kj who have the type of systems I posted in prev post

I don't under stand how you can say I am way out of the norm
iv only been selling them there audio gear for 10 years and before that I use to be the Washington rep for some major audio manufacture
I love testing hoster and from this point on that is just where ill stay
do you really know what the norm is
fact
most booking agents in md /dc require the dj/kj to take a full back up system in order to get the gig
fact
if they go to the gig with out a back and they go down they don't get paid
fact
some companies here are offering 3 times your money back if the systems fail
so in a nut shell if the dj/kj goes to the show with no back up and the system goes down
he or she has to pay the 3 times the money back to the booking
company

so I am not sure were or what you based telling me I am not the norm but in this case and in my 3 state area your wrong

that being said I would like to drop this whole thing
and move on please there are more important things going on


thank you very much all have a good night mike

[admin]

Mike, I apologize in this thread if I have offended you. Your input and answers are apreciated, when they are not demanding. I guess it is your written word that is the problem, not your knowledge.

As to my comment that you are out of the norm, that was based on one fact you stated, and have been pushing for: You want THREE systems to run the same Hoster.

The wonderful, factual example you gave above very clearly requires Hoster to be on TWO systems, not THREE. That is the difference in our postions.

By listening to your and others requests in this thread, on February 18, 2004 in 15 seconds our web master changed the number of permissions to install Hoster from 1 to 2. I did this after much heart searching, discussions with our programmers, MTU sales and MTU support. It was NOT an easy decision. It also makes it far more difficult for MTU to now move in a direction where we have been "The Visionary" for 5 years.

However, to add more complexity to our Installation program to allow TRANSFERRING Hoster from one computer to another (assuming the one is running! :r), is FAR more complex, would take a LOOOOONE time to beta test and get the bugs out, and the Lord only knows how we have "abused" you and our other beta testers on working out the bugs in our security. :e :r

Thus, the simple way out was to allow everyone to install Hoster on 2 computers.

Mike, I hope you will not abandon posting in the Forums. My point was simply running Hoster on 2 versus 3 computers.

[mikedomi]

I did not ask you in this thread for hoster to run on 3 computers
I was just making a point about locking songs to 1
and that would hurt a lot of people

future more you blasted my post in this thread as if any thing I said was wrong

now I will say this for everyone to see were I stand on this

I think you giving 2 hosters for 1 reg. is wrong I think that is to much

I would like you to keep getting as much as you can for 1 hoster

and sell us a strip down player for maybe 50-100 dollars that way every one can have a play ver on all there computers and there is no need for a back up copy of hoster

and if you sell a strip down player. the requirements for CPU should
be under 1 gig maybe??

so you buy 1 ver of hoster at reg. price
and then you buy four or five players to do your shows on
or just sell us 2 players for every 1 hoster
if you buy hoster the player would be 50 dollars
if you did not buy hoster the player would be 100 dollars

now if this cant be done ok ill get over it life goes on

but I think now everyone will get the point as in too what I was thinking instead of you making it sound like I was demanding it

but ask your self this
we buy a bulldozer to do the work (hoster full ver)

and then we by the dump truck to do the show ( hoster player)

now does this make sense to anyone or do I just live in la la land any way got to go work to be done see you all later mike

[CochrellGary]

Mike,

Let me put into my words what I think you stated in your last post.

Example:
I buy one set of original CDG's, make 3 copies and now I can run up to 4 shows (illeagl of course).

Now I buy one copy of Hoster, make one set of kms files, copy the kma files three times, now I can run up to 4 shows if I have 1 original Hoster and three "Hoster Player's" (illegal again).

This is how the post read for me. Is this what you ment? Iam just trying to understand this sticky security issue.

Gary

[George]

Now you lost me, Gary.

Why is it any more illegal to do what Mike is proposing than to do what ADMIN is proposing?

They are both talking about using more than one machine, whether it's two or three or a dozen shouldn't have any bearing on the legality of it.

The KJ has still only purchased one set of original cdg's, but has installed them on more than one machine.

If I were that position, I'd have nothing but the songlist folder on a USB hard drive, with Hoster on two machines, one for primary use, and one for back up.

The full and strip down versions of Hoster would be ideal in that situation.

George

[CochrellGary]

George, you're right.
I was looking at the "Hoster Player" idea. Doesn't seem to solve the problem. But being able to install Hoster on two computers is basically the same situation.

If my laptop goes down, I have to use CDG's until the computer is fixed. Then I re-install Hoster and I off and running again. It would be nice to have a second laptop with Hoster installed for a backup but not on my budget:) .

Gary

[mikedomi]

let me say this slow so every one will follow

tonight have a show and Tue and wed with me so far (good)
now were are only talking 1 hard drive to do this with and its a usb ok still with me (good)

I own 3 computer a laptop,lunch box that has an internal DJ hard drive for dj music and a rack mount built computer in to a rack for big shows
ok still with me (good)

tonight show is in a very small room no space so I take my laptop and the hard drive to do that show and as a back up I take the lunch box .
get the point so far were are still only using 1 set of disc on one hard drive
now that show is done

on Tuesday I use my lunch box its a dj and karaoke mix and I take my laptop as a back up still with me (good)

now its wednesday really big show so I take my 4 foot high rack case in this case have
1 mixer a dull head for my bpm a back up player for my karaoke disc should hoster hard drive fail in the bottom of this rack I have
a good mix of karaoke disc
and a back up player for dj disc should bpm fail
now were have I been illegal no were that I can see I used the same hard drive for all 3 shows on 3 diff computers and now can you see the point

if you have computers to do diff types of shows why be forced to use only one for karaoke and why have a full ver of hoster on each its not necessary only a hoster player is needed in this case
the only thing for full hoster is when working on putting in disc in hoster which could be on your home desk top
this way I have a choice on which computer I want to use on what type of show and what size room and if there are a lot of steps then ill just take the laptop
do you get the point now ok that said

how many of you out there before hoster came out. had your original disc and a back up copy of them most of you I bet.

were you using both to do shows ??????

now you bought hoster and you put your disc on that
now ask your self this are you illegal with a back up disc copy and a hard drive copy of kma files
you now have your original disc and there back up and hosters kma it sounds to me like we have 1 to many copies do you think

at this point who knows

at no time have i ask or suggets to do anything illegal

and even if you had 4 copys of your hard drive as long as you only use one at a time and the shows times do not over lap as far as i know you are not illegal how can you be
and if you are
then you are illegal right now if you
have your back up cdgs and hoster kma they are both copys right
just a diif formate i guess we are wrong because we have 3 ocpys of the disc
your oringal and your cdg copy and your hoster copy

hope this help you follow what i was trying to say mike

[gduns - with the Lord]

Mike,
I Can see where you are coming from. You want Backup systems.

Let me ask you when you bought your laptop, and explained your situation to the computer mfg. did they give you a free Backup computer, and when you decided you needed a lunchbox did they then give you a free lunchbox computer.

The point here is you want to run 3 computers, for backup or whatever. Software does have a tangeable cost. just like the computers. you cant see it, because you see it as something on a disk that should be distributed to every computer you own, or choose to put it on once you own it.

Did you put the same copy of windows, with the same serial number on all 3 computers? If you did you are Illegal.

Just because software comes on a disk, and can be loaded rather than as a physical comodity does not mean it should be handed out like candy. You of all people should know how much time and effort went into Just upgrading this version.

Over 8 months of programming time, and beta testing time. Just like the computers as being a physical commodity, software has a cost involved with the production. I'm sorry if you cant see that. I for one can. You Know me, form the Beta testers. I am not speaking as or for MTU, but this is my take.

[dlessnau]

Regarding hiding the files from a user on your computer. I think is works fine as long as you are using the computer harddrive, as I am, for your songs. Mine is 80 Gig and 20 Gig are still available after 750 CDG's imported. However, if I fill up the drive, I would need to use an external drive, and this is where the idea of encrypting would be valuable.

[mikedomi]

WHAT IN THE H### ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

mtu is giving away a whole full ver of hoster does this make money sense?????????

now as far as what I suggested they would most likely make more money selling a player hoster and not giving a sec hoster out

gduns I have bought 4 hoster how many have you bough twhat maybe 1 I don't know so please don't preach to me
you read my post wrong or you would not of posted what you said


David I ask you before ill ask you again PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TAKE MY POST ALL OF THEM OUT OF THIS THREAD I AM REALLY TIRED OF TRYING TO EXPLAIN THIS CRAP OVER AND OVER AGAIN NOTHING I SAID WAS illegal AND I DID NOT ASK FOR A DAMM THING FOR FREE
I JUST TRIED TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH HOSTER ON THE HARDWARE SIDE
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POST AS I WILL NOT ANSWER ANY MORE NOR WILL I RETURN ANY PM.
I AM SO DONE WITH THIS THEARD

I AM SO DONE WITH GIVING MY OPTION

[Beavis]

this thread is getting old !!!

[dlessnau]

We are way off the subject here, and really, the subject is closed because I posted how to protect your files by hiding them from a user.

I do not know how to remove your posts, so I can't help you there.

[George]

ADMIN POSTED:
ADMIN NOTE: I'm not the final word on this, but if you have your KMA songs on a hard drive, and that can be removed and copyed, then all your work on creating a new User with limited permissions is to no value. All they have to do is put the hard drive on a second computer and copy the KMA files.

This was never resolved and I'm inclined to agree with ADMIN. If the .KMA filkes are on a USB hard drive, this should be able to be plugged into any computer that does not have password protection and copied, meaning all this was for naught.

I don't perceive protecting the DJ's property as being MtU's responsibility. If they offer optional encrypring, the user should pay a price for it.

My house didn't come insured, I have to pay for it.

An MD's malpractice insurance isn't included with his license...he pays for it.

The bar owner in which you work doesn't get public liability insurance included in his lease...he pays for it.

You want MTU to go through the expense to protect your property...pay for it.


George

[dlessnau]

Some bitter people on this thread.

Who said I would not pay for the protection? I would be happy to pay. This is stop gap until something else is available.

Meanwhile, I will have someone more knowledgable then me work with my computer and see if they can make it foolproof.

I have at least figured out how to make Hoster work under a user account so the expert can take it from there. Before I understood about sharing, it would not open.

[George]

dlessnau,

Not bitter by any stretch of the imagination..have nothing to be bitter about. Just a common sense business approach..

I was commenting in generality, perhaps targeted more to MTU than anyone.

Don't ever remember directing the post to you to begin with...so why take personal offense?



George

[Wayne White]

I solved the backup problem. I have 3 sets of CDGs. I bought 5 laptops & 5 Hoster licenses. We do a Max of 3 Karaoke shows per night, but unless all 3 crap out on the same night, we are covered.

A Hoster license cost about 1/2 of what I pay for a wireless microphone, it is a very small cost in relation to everything else involved in running a high quality show.

As far as my DJs copying my hard drives. This would be very bold. If any of my guys suddenly goes into competition with me, it wouldn't take very long to figure out whether they had copied my songs & I would not hesitate to send KAPA after them.

Wayne

[Dana_N]

I have not yet purchased the Hoster software but I do read the forums. First off, that would be totally illegal in all aspects, turn him/her in. Unless the dishonest employee went out and bought ALL originals and a complete rig, Hoster included, at great cost I might add. It would be easy to prove theft, besides, if they already had all this, they would have been working for themselves anyway.

On the other hand, as long as you are using a PC of any sort with an O.S. that has an administrator account and no external drives, use the O.S. in your favor. (NOT WIN 95, 98, 98SE or Me) as hitting cancel gets around almost all account restrictions.

If you have a dishonest employee or think you do get rid of them, it's your show. If you want to keep them or are just paranoid, try the following.

1). Do not use external devices in your shows. Allow CD/DVD burning software to run on the Administrator account only. This way you can still read the disk a patron may bring in.

2). In the system bios, disable as many external ports as it will allow.

3). Stop non-Windows or DOS type file transfers. Do not allow the system to boot from floppy, disable it. Remove it from the bios if your system bios does not allow you to disable it as a boot device.

4). Go into windows hardware configuration and disable external ports, (pcmcia ports on laptops) and network cards for all configurations. As an Administrator you can re-enable them as needed for updates.

5). Do not use PC or laptops with easily removed drives and routinely add and check tamper seals. Make this part of your rig checkout routine. If you don't have a routine, you should, after each show.

6). Maybe the most important thing of all. Do not let them take the system for longer than required to do the show including travel time to and from the site. It takes TIME to copy anything.

With this done there is no worry about encrypting or decrypting problems. :w

Dana