Interesting Perspective

[MaddMatt]

All:

I am an entreprenuer who has started a couple of businesses in the past. I hit a local bar with karoake every Thursday and am considering starting this business. So I know just enough about business and Karaoke to make me dangerous

After reading a number of messages in a number of forums and threads I have had a number of insights.

---------------
1> Every KJ I have seen, failed to meet expectations in one area: throughput. Performers can never sing enough. I realize that you hate standing behind a table all night but when it takes a couple of minutes between songs, we notice. This was why I looked into this business.... I figured I could do it faster. And faster means happier customers and happier customers mean happier bars.

2> Don't drink. A boss at your full time job won't let you drink while you work, why would you do it for your own business? Time spent at the bar is time wasted.

3> Run your equipment. I have seen KJ's in the past who have regulars switch off manning the equipment.

4>You are not the entertainment. KJ's are there to keep things moving. Singing throughout the night is not why you are there. Performers want to be the center of attention, don't take that away from them

5> Don't skimp on songs. I try to do at least one new song a week and a bigger book may take longer to get thru but sooner or later I will find what I want. For what it costs in paper and ink, print up new songbooks every couple of months. I hate having to look in a bunch of places for a song. Is it under artist name? Song Title? New Country hits March? New Country Hits April? geez..

6> Earn your money. When the owner sees you doing any of the above he wonders why he brought you in. Make sure he/she sees you working hard for your money.

7> Remember that every night someone is in the audience checking out your business. You start getting sloppy and you are begging someone like me to compete. I may not stay in the business but any competition brings prices down and dilutes the market.

8> I know you have been doing this for years and you know everything there is to know about the business but when someone offers up a suggestion, actually consider it. Even better write it down and look at it the next day. Even though you know all there is to know about Karaoke, we are your customers and trying to accomodate them might be wise.

--------------------

Just a couple of insights from years of Karaoke'ing. In case he is reading this, the current KJ I see all the time is probably the best locally and most of the above does NOT apply to him :g

[Flipeoke]

This is my shortened edited version, my original was much longer. But beware, this one is still quite long:

Where do I begin:

First of all while this may apply to the KJs in your local area, this does not apply to everyone here.

I have been in the karaoke business going on 10 years now. While I do not claim to be the best, I do get many compliments, and thank yous.

Like you said in your post: You know just enough to be dangerous.

What amazes me is that you are a new board member here, and the first thing you post is how we are all running our business wrong. With this mentality and stereotyping, you will not last long in this business. If you think all KJ's are the same think again. If you think all singers are the same, think again.

1. Faster is Better:
EVERY KJ WILL FAIL TO MEET SOMEONE'S EXPECTATIONS ON THROUGHPUT! ALWAYS! No matter what you do and how fast you run the show, there will ALWAYS be someone who feels he/she did not get to sing enough. It happens.

2. Don't Drink:
Good point. Don't drink so much that it impairs your show. Excessive drinking clouds your judgement, slows your reflexes and impairs your speech. All of which you need to run a good show.

3. Run the equipment:
Good point, you will never see me allow anyone use my equipment. I paid for it I will run it. Perhaps the KJ you are refering to is employed by someone who paid for the equipment , and he couldn't care less about how the show goes, or the equipment.

4. You are not the entertainment:
Karaoke (and KJ'ing) IS about entertainment. And despite what you think you are the entertainment. And I'm not talking about singing here.

5. Don't skimp on songs:
Agree. Have a large variety of songs, but not so large, that the quality suffers because of it. I could easily have double the amount of songs in my library, if I had gone with cheaper quality. But I, like many other good KJs do their homework. I try out songs before I get the discs. I listen to the different versions of a song and get the best version, sometimes I get 4 or 5 discs for songs I could find on 1 of those discs, why? QUALITY. More is not always better.

6. Earn your money:
Does this require a response?

7. Remember every night blah blah blah...
Why on earth, if you want to get into the business, would you want to bring prices down and dilute the market? Makes no sense to me. First of all I don't do this to make a profit, I do this because I enjoy it. When I stop enjoying it, I will sell you all my equipment. I guarantee you will not be able to undercut the good KJs and stay in business. (Unless you live in an area where there are no good quality KJs which may be the case judgeing from your post.) It is the KJs that undercut and cannot provide the services that owners stay away from.
As for competition....Bring it.

8. Write down sugestions and consider them:
I do not know, nor claim to know everything there is to know about karaoke. I am not, nor do I claim to be the best. I do consider suggestions, as do most of the good KJs. More often than not, if it gets sugested, I have tried it and explain to them why it wouldn't/doesn't work. I bring up points that they haven't thought of, and more often than not they agree.

For the most part what you say is true, however, KJ'ing is not as easy as it seems, do not stereotype everyone, and most of all, while you can try to please everyone, you will not. Oh and unless you have seen everyone of us at a show, do not assume you can do a better job. Good luck in your endeavor.

Flip

P.S. On a side note, what were these other business you started? Are they still around, do you still own them? I believe Karaoke to be a very personal job, take the personality out of it and you take the fun out of it.

[George]

This may surprise some as active as I am on these forums, but I not only am not a KJ, but have never been in a Karaoke club, and have no intentions of doing so. I'm passionate about music, and for five years have been a member of a private Karaoke club that meets regularly to sing and have fun doing it.

All that out of the way I'll say that I enjoy "hanging out" with the many KJ's I've come to know and like here on these forums. I have learned one thing from you guys and gals these past two years that I think MADDMATT missed when doing his research, or I may have gotten the wrong impression reading his post.

Anybody going into the KJ business motivated by the prospect of making a buck because it looks lucrative from the patron's vantage point, best stay on that side of the stage.

George

[MaddMatt]

Flip:

I'm sory, I did not mean to start a firestorm here and didn't come on trying to tell everyone how to run their business. As the thread indicated, I felt I had an interesting perespective. One with points you may not have heard before. I have seen about 25-30 KJ busineses throughout the country and the list I compiled were things that I noticed about many of them. This was not a personal attack but hopefuly a different perspective.

While I don't know everything about this business, I have seen and read enough to know that the majority of KJ's don't treat it like a business and more like a good time and a night out and the 8 points reflected that.

I appreciate your feedback and that you agreed with a majority of what I had to say (5 out of 8 ain't bad). Hopefully some KJ's will be open to seeing some of themselves in those points and change for the better.

I won't make this post longer by going point by point and responding. I am a businessman who has started and sold a number of businesses, one of which I am still operating. I am naturally interested in operations and in making things better, more effecient and profitable. If you took my post personally, maybe it's because some of it rings true... maybe not.

One point I will contest because I think it was misinterpreted. Karaoke is great entertainment but when the Kj sings regularly in the rotation, takes too much time between songs because he is joking with the crowd or spends too much time socializing and too little on the business at hand, the patrons don't like it. You are right that nobody thinks the KJ goes fast enough. So why take more time between songs other than to thank the last person and introduce the next one? if it is done pleasantly then everyone will be happy

I caught your point that this was my first post. Without knowing any background, though, you assumed I was naive. I have read hundreds of posts on these boards over various topics and threads. I became well acquainted with the business from yours and other KJ's experience here, in discussions with operators onsite as well as my own experiences as a patron.

I'm sorry you read it as an attack on your business. If anyone else who reads this thread takes it personally, I'll apologize in advance to you. These were points that would make every business better if we weren't so quick to dismiss them.

I look forward to contributing to further discussions.

:)

[Flipeoke]

I promise to keep this one shorter....

Maybe I did take it a bit personal, but what really bugs me (and this is not aimed at you), is misinformed people that come up to me and tell me how I should run my business, and saying that they can do better. To which I usually reply "Put together a system and discs, and a proposal to the owner and if he decides to go with you, so be it."

As you put it:
"I may not stay in the business but any competition brings prices down and dilutes the market. "

IMO that is the wrong attitude. Basically, it says to me: "Hey, I really don't give a **** whether I succeed or not, but I sure as hell can undercut your prices." Not the best business model, you being a business-person, should recognize this.

But mostly, It is your arrogance that really annoys me...
"These were points that would make every business better if we weren't so quick to dismiss them."
You say this as if it were fact, when it is only your opinion. Keep it as such and don't try to force it down my throat. I think after 10 years in one location, I know what my customers do and do not like.

Flip

[jaddams]

You were right George, :g

Good controversies do increase traffic. I am reading right along. :c

Regards,

Jon

[George]

Sure does, Jon. I picked up on it quite some time back.
This one's already had 46 hits..Amazing how it gets around the grapevine.:)

Take Care,

George

[flipper]

MaddMatt

I sing regularly in almost every rotation. My primary reasons for doing this are:

1. I begin every rotation with a Song - this visually cues the singers as to where the rotation begins and ends. Not everyone will hear me say that the rotation has ended, but if they see hear me singing a song they know that the rotation is starting over. In fact if I skip over myself it really screws up some of my regulars, they seem to find comfort in knowing where they are at in the rotation. It gives them some idea of how long it will be before they sing again. Perhaps they want to play a game of pool or play some video poker etc.

2. This gives me an opportunity to spice up the rotation a bit if the last 7-10 songs were country ballads. I will put a fast song up for myself to sing to get the folks dancing and drinking. This is called entertaining your customers. We have alot of listeners in our audience as well, and they like to have fun too. This way they can participate in the show without singing.

3. I have some customers who like to sing Duets with me so I reserve my turn to sing. This accomplishes two things, it starts the rotation over, and entertains the singers request.

You were looking for some input!

That's My 2 cents

[MaddMatt]

Flip et al:

Thanks for the feedback. I am finding your insight very informative.

We keep coming back to the "dilute the market" statement and maybe I didn't state that whole thing well enough. The point I was trying to make was that if the Kj does a good solid job, I shouldn't be able to think that I can do it better. I was trying to motivate people to do a consistently good job so people won't come into the market and dilute it while driving prices down. I se that in the DJ business where anybody with some CD's and loud sound system thinks they can DJ. They bring the prices down for everybody and make it harder on the good operators.

As for my arrogance, I'm sorry. Rereading my posts, maybe it does come off that way. On the other hand, you agreed completely with 5 of the 8 points and we are close on 1 or 2 more so I can't be too far off :)

As for singing in every rotation, I still don't quite understand that. If the Kj sings once in every rotation, how is that different than if anyone else takes that spot. Patrons recognize who has sung and where in the order they are. Simply saying who is up on deck can help give people a 3-5 minute warning. I do agree though that spicing it up if it is warranted is a great idea if the songs start to bring people down and a duet once in a while never hurts. I guess anything taken to extremes can be bad.

After clarifying my remarks, I stand by what I said. My motives for this are completely selfless, I have nothing to gain. I just want to see people succeed in their businesses and when they treat it like some fun on the weekend instead of a business, it shows. And I am sure there are other people like me that are in your audiences and see some kinks and think they could do it better. If the job is well done, with good equipment, then people won't even spend the mental energy trying to make it better. Few people want to start a business so they can be bottm feeders, they start a business because they think they can be the best.

After a number of emails (even some supportive ones :) ) I think taking a step back and analyzing what we do as business people and why we do it is a good thing. Just because it's been done that way for years is not an excuse.

Thanks for keeping the conversation going. I look forward to your repsonses and I am glad that this is entertaining for the rest of you :g

[MaddMatt]

I know it is pathetic to reply to my own post, but here goes :)

The thing I said about considering patrons opinions and writing them down was a personal point that affected my current business.

I had my customers offering up suggestions at every event. Most of the ideas I had already tried and they didn't work for one reason or another. At one event, a customer told an employee a suggestion instead of me. This employee wrote it down and dropped it in the till. He also told me about it later and I dismissed it as I had tried it before.

The next day I found the note and revisited the idea (without having to defend myself to a customer or employee on why I do what I do). Sure enough it had some merit and after some tweaking it actually worked. It has made my business better.

Since then when people offer suggestions, I hand them a pad and ask them to write them down. That way I can give it all the attention it deserves which is tough in the middle of an event. If they are sincere they write it down or I do it for them. If they just wanted to make conversation, they managed to do that too. Either way I look good to the customer and maybe I get some good ideas out of it for free!

When people offer suggestions I take it personally too. Who is this person to think they can do it better? Then I realize that there is nothing in it for them and alot in it for me. This person could take his ideas and start his/her own business and be my competition. If I handle it well, I eliminate that threat while getting a gem once in a while. I feel better about it and so do they.

its a win-win opportunity:g

[Flipeoke]

Well, I thought I'd give it a try to put this to rest:

This is not a I'm right, you're wrong situation. What works for me at my shows, might not work for you. You have to realize that different areas cater to different types of people, and all people are different. I try to please as many people as I can as often as I can without alienating others. I have the type of personality, which allows me a little more flexability in my show. You will never satisfy everyone's need to sing, realize this, but if you entertain well, and they all enjoy themselves, it does not matter as much. Yes, you might loose that one "karaoke diva" who is so upset he did not get to sing every song from "Phantom of the Opera" or some other broadway show but so be it.

I will part company with a quick story:

A competitor (and good aquaintence) of mine decided to put on a Large karaoke event. This man is an exceptional business man, owns a number of businesses, and also KJs. It was a contest to find the best karaoke singer of the area. And in doing so the best karaoke club. Each club who wanted to participate could sponsor up to 5 singers. There would be a maximum of 50 singers. Tickets were sold at $50.00 each, and included open bar, dinner, etc... Judges were local radio celebrities and a couple record producers. Someone from my club came in third, 2 people from the host club (the club this exceptional businessman KJs at) came in first and second. The winner was the "karaoke diva" who came to my show a couple of times who found out he did not get to sing enough. Well, it came time for the winner to pick the best Karaoke Bar. He said on the mic he has had the best time at my show, and considered it the best karaoke bar, but it would be wrong not to choose the bar that sponsered him in this event.

Hey, you win some you lose some. But we all had fun!

Flip

[MaddMatt]

Flip:

Thanks for the great story. I agree that like any business, it depends on your location and clientelle.

I appreciated the insights and keep them coming!:w

[flipper]

Matt

You Said:

"I hit a local bar with karoake every Thursday and am considering starting this business. So I know just enough about business and Karaoke to make me dangerous"

I think your intentions are quite honorable with regard to thoughts about what would make a good KJ and great show. I think that you need to experience what it actually is like to run a Karaoke Show and do it for 6months to a 1 year before you can comfortably take a stand on issues you have posted in this forum.

Yes! there are KJ's out there that do not have a clue what makes a good show, and usually they do not last very long. Those types are a dime a dozen. But there are alot of really great KJ's that have an excellent following and are very entertaining. They have learned by trial and error over a long period time what works for them in their market and their venue. Perhaps you should not only look for what is wrong in a show, but look for what they are doing right as well. We all have different strengths and weaknesses. Learn from both and apply them in "your own show"

My advise is for you to get some actual experience running a karaoke show as a KJ. Then you may have a completely different perspective on what does and does not work. Make it an experiment if you will... It will be an "eye opener" for sure. A low cost way to do this is to become a fill in KJ for one of the local shows a couple of nights a month.

Right now your ideas are working in a vaccum, where all conditions are ideal. It is only when you subject them to real conditions and events coupled with your own strengths and weaknesses that you will begin to see how they actually work. I have had many thoughts similar to yours prior to becoming a KJ and now reflecting back, some have been useful and many have not.

I challenge you to learn this business first hand, If you really like karaoke and working with people it can be very rewarding

Good Luck

[George]

Been reading with interest, and have come to the conclusion that the KJ doesn't really have that much choice. It's either be part entertainer/ part host, or crash and burn, and here's why I say that.

The public expects a DJ to be amusing, witty, and entertaining, while at the same time keeping the show on pace. That's all the public has ever known from DJ's.

I don't believe the public makes the distinction between DJ's and KJ's.

I propose that the public expects the same from a KJ, and it won't matter a fig what brand CDG's, what amplification system, what computer based or conventional player system is used to run the show, if the KJ doesn't strike the balance between entertaining and hosting that their particular audience demands, forget it.

Just some thoughts from an impartial "outsider"

George

[flipper]

Good Observation George!

For many of my customers, they could care less what the disc brand is as long as you have their song. Many folks really can't tell the difference between one system or the other, and for the most part it's not an issue.

Of course there are exceptions, and those folks are more hard core karaoke types. They really appreciate music that is mixed and the Microphone levels and effects adjusted just right. They also look for the higher quality discs. Just add atmosphere and that keeps them coming back every week. They represent probably 40% of my crowd.

The 60% are there to have a good time and are content with status quo. I try to give them the best of both worlds.

Funny how it works out but these folks (60%'ers) are the ones
who generate the most revenue for the clubs that I work with. They spend the dollars which keeps the club owners happy and my business going.

Flipper:g

[MaddMatt]

Guys:

Thanks for the insights. I already made a couple of phone calls and will be helping out a KJ this week. If all goes well, I can start hosting soon. I am sure it will be an eye opener.... you never know what you're getting into until you're in the thick of it.

I found it interesting, your insight into the mainstream making it possible in the bars rather than the "hardcore" singers. that was something that I thought as well.

I'll let you know my experiences as they happen and how my theories are turned into practice:g

BTW, I never answered you on the "what do you do now" front. My current business is radio controlled NASCAR. We do everything from private parties to county fairs and everything in between. Our website will give you some idea of what it is all about. We also manufacture the attractions for businesses around the country.

[bubba1453]

MADDMATT

I agree on all of your points but one, the redo songbooks so often. I own multiple systems and have approximately 10,000 songs. I do purchase new hits monthly. List them in front of book as new arrivals. Customers advise what songs they would like.
Works out fine. To redo that many pages every three months is not cost effective and alot of work ( I'm Not Lazy! ) But when you have 20-30 books per system, you figure the math. My customers are happy. I do it once a year. But thanks for the great input. Bottom line is everyone wants to be successful.

[MaddMatt]

bubba:

20-30 books per system?

I have never counted books at an event before but that has to be some kind of record. Most shows I have seen couldn't have more than 5-7 books for the whole place.

As an FYI, Xerx makes a color printer under their Tektronix brand name that has free black ink for the life of the printer. It uses solid ink technology and prints amazing pics as well. if you do a lot of printing, this might be the best way to go! I have one and love it

Madd Matt

[kedmison]

I agree with MaddMatt. That's alot of books! I myself go with 9. 8 by artists and 1 by title. What I have found that helps with my regulars is I give them a little pinch clip (for a better word) and they keep their slips. They simply put them in the order that they want to sing and as they use them I put it to the back of their stack. Saves them time in looking up their favorites; saves me on paper even though I know that's probably insignificant. I also know some KJ's like the "sing one/bring one slip system" I still like the "bring me what you want to do." I program into Hoster who's to do what and those that are regulars, I put them back in their stacks; the others I pitch.

Kelly

[MaddMatt]

Someone agreed with me?

I'm ..... feeling .... faint

<plop>

[danny_g]

Originally posted by kedmison
I agree with MaddMatt. That's alot of books! I myself go with 9. 8 by artists and 1 by title. What I have found that helps with my regulars is I give them a little pinch clip (for a better word) and they keep their slips. They simply put them in the order that they want to sing and as they use them I put it to the back of their stack. Saves them time in looking up their favorites; saves me on paper even though I know that's probably insignificant. I also know some KJ's like the "sing one/bring one slip system" I still like the "bring me what you want to do." I program into Hoster who's to do what and those that are regulars, I put them back in their stacks; the others I pitch.

Kelly

Does that mean that you cater totally to the Regular? This is the main reason I got into hosting because I felt I could do a "Fair" show. I don't care if you came in late or not if someone has the song up first and hasn't sung it yet I will not put the same song up for the late comer regular or not. If it comes in at the same time from 2 singers and I have time for both to do two songs, I'll put one of them in the first rotation and the other into the next, if one asks when it is coming up I tell them where I put those songs. All my clients are told up front that I operate in this manner and the idea is to put more people in the seats not just the regulars.

[TKaraoke]

Pet peave of many people I know that karaoke, is that KJ's have books either by artist or song title, many people know one or tyhe other for different sonmgs or artists, all my books contain both artist and title sections, a little more to carry and print, but solves that problem. I personally hate have ato go to a show that has the book done one way or the other.
TK

[MaddMatt]

TK:

It's rare that I see two different books as well. Most places I have seen have it all in one. It does make for a bigger book or smaller printing but comes in handy to be able to peruse for new songs.

[flipper]

I have found that when I tried printing most of my books by title with one by artist (tried this only once). I rec'd too many complaints. So on the next printing I went back to it all in one book. More expensive "yes" but fewer complaints.

The seem to like it both ways.


Flip

[kedmison]

Danny-g,

You better reread my post again. You diffntly misuderstood. All I was saying is that for the people who come there all the time I give them a little clip. It's like a mini clamp that holds their slips together. This lets them take them with them when they leave so they can come back and use them again. It has nothing to do with who sings what or unfair treatment.

Kelly

[MaddMatt]

Maybe this should be in a new or different thread but I think giving your regulars something special for them is a great idea. Even if it is just a clip for their songs slips.

I could also picture printing up a sheet of song slips with their name already printed on it. Or slips laminated with their favorite songs. Maybe a clip with your business name on it so they always remember where they love to karaoke.

Any other ideas? Something that could really build up the regulars and keep them coming back to your events?

Madd Matt

[kedmison]

Flipper,

Just a though; books are expensive I agree. I had a fellow KJ who did what you did. All by title but one. And 90% of the singers complained. I use all by artist but one. I at least have found that most people know what artist or group they like to sing, much easier than they remember the titles. I think if you'll do this you'll make most of your customers very happy and save you money. And to make it easier, put all the artists books all in the same color and the title book different so it will be easier to find.:w

Kelly

[Wayne White]

I don't know how many customers/singers some of you have on a given night, but, to say 9 is a lot of books is amusing. We have some nights where we have more singers than can get up in a 4 hour show. With 20+ books handed out people are still coming up asking for books.

When our book count gets low in a system, the KJs get complaints & leave me notes about it. When I replace my books entirely, I start with 15 by Artist & 7 by Song Title. I use a IBICO comb binder machine & assemble my own books. I use white binders for Song & black for Artist. That way I can tell from a distance what type of book is on the table. I also print my Business Name at the Top & a line at the Bottom in Color, Blue for Artists Books & Red for By Song Name. The customers recognise the books by these colors, I use the binder color because the front sheet can easily get torn out. Besides my own advertising, I also have our 'every week jobs' listed on the front sheet. The back of the front sheet contains Tips on using the Mic, Dos & Dont's & an explanation of how we run the rotation.

I do agree that most people prefer the books by artist, but, then again people are constantly asking who sang a song. When I can't tell them, I say find a book with a white binder.

Do most of you hand out pens? I buy the Bics at 12 for just under a buck & still go through way to many of them. I have done pens with advertising on them, but, they are more expensive & leave even faster than the cheap Bics.

Wayne

[TKaraoke]

Wayne, just a couple thoughts, a friend of mine used IBICO binder, was always having books stolen, since he switched to ring binders not one gone. They would take the IBICO into washroom, put in in belt on their back and walk out. Also I use the little golf pencils, fairly inexpensive if you loose them so what.
TK

[MaddMatt]

Wayne:

I agree that my shows locally aren't nearly as big as what some of you guys are doing. I went out last night and got up around 5 times in 4 hours! I loved it but I am sure the bar would've liked to see more people getting up less and making them more money :)

It kind of makes me think about the need for a great KJ business locally.

Keep the pointers coming!

[flipper]

I keep all of my regular customers song slips in a 4x6 index file boxes. I have one box that has a tab for each the hard core regulars and then another box for the other customers indexed alphabetically.

I greet the regulars when they arrive and have their song slips in my hand when I walk to their table. It's a little extra that keeps them coming back.

It's also fun to watch the expression on the face of someone who has not been in for a couple months and you remember their name and have kept their song slips. It makes them feel special.

This works fine for me because I'm good with remembering names, it may or may not work for everyone.

[TKaraoke]

Flipper
Something I did was to have my song requests forms made, I have 5,000 at a time done, and have the edges gummed so they are little tablet like books, you just tear a sheet off. No slips laying all over the tables or floor at the end of the evening to pick up.
Some of my regulars, have asked for a pad, written their songs down, and have taken them home and lamintaed them, neat idea, works well. I have also taken an inexpensive Roladex, printed out my regulars names, plus some extras on Roladex cards, and got the plastic Roladex covers, and use them for my rotation. Works great, never go out of rotation accidentally, and you don't have to worry about your request forms getting knocked out of order. Plus when the singers see it with their name printed out on them they always make a comment about being special.
TK

[danny_g]

I no longer spend money on slips or pens- I have a computer program I got from a yahoo club I joined that allows me to have the customer com up to me and give me the name of the song and I keep a book with me at all times plus a laptop that I run my program on that handles rotation as well as tells me what they are singing. the group is Karaoke universe at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/karaokeuniverse/

try it out you might find some cool insights as well.

just so you understand this is justinfo for you guys. not an advertisement or anything like that.

[bubba1453]

All my books contain Songs by artist and by title. I have no problems with customers finding songs. Last night did a gig and ended up with between 100 and 200 people-way too many people- but it worked out. If I had only 7-9 books it would have been a disaster. What ever makes your customer happy is the ticket. But not redoing the books so often.

[shortrounder]

I have just finished reading all the post on the merit of being a good KJ. I would like to tell some of the other side.(things some of you do ,or don't do.)

Peeves

1.Keep to the rotation. If some one comes late to sing,make them wait for their turn, just like we all have been waiting.I hate it when some people come in and get put up to sing at the top of the rotation.
2. If you move things along between songs we are much happier.DON"T play a song that you like all the way thrue and have them stand there till it ends. I can go sit in my car and listen to the radio and hear that.
3.Don't have your friends there to sing with you and sing next by them self. A duet is your turn. Your song has been SUNG

Things I like

1.If some one is not a real good singer but is really having fun,give the all the support you can.Tell them songs you think will be Great for their type of voice.You can do this real easy if you think about it.
2.Books with music both ways are the best for me.
3.It is nice when all your song slips are keep in one place.
4.I like it when the KD lets me use my own disk, as I have played these at home and feel best with them.
5.If a song sounds to high, or low start over and make the change for them(and the people that are listening to them.)
6.A good gift of gab is nice .A happy KJ makes us happy.

Just some of my thoughts ...........do re me

Shortrounder

[danny_g]

Originally posted by shortrounder
I have just finished reading all the post on the merit of being a good KJ. I would like to tell some of the other side.(things some of you do ,or don't do.)

Peeves

1.Keep to the rotation. If some one comes late to sing,make them wait for their turn, just like we all have been waiting.I hate it when some people come in and get put up to sing at the top of the rotation.
2. If you move things along between songs we are much happier.DON"T play a song that you like all the way thrue and have them stand there till it ends. I can go sit in my car and listen to the radio and hear that.
3.Don't have your friends there to sing with you and sing next by them self. A duet is your turn. Your song has been SUNG

Things I like

1.If some one is not a real good singer but is really having fun,give the all the support you can.Tell them songs you think will be Great for their type of voice.You can do this real easy if you think about it.
2.Books with music both ways are the best for me.
3.It is nice when all your song slips are keep in one place.
4.I like it when the KD lets me use my own disk, as I have played these at home and feel best with them.
5.If a song sounds to high, or low start over and make the change for them(and the people that are listening to them.)
6.A good gift of gab is nice .A happy KJ makes us happy.

Just some of my thoughts ...........do re me

Shortrounder
p1 nice if you have time - I always allow at least one song per singer each night there for If It means upsetting people already there to make sure everyone gets to sing thats the way it goes- I'll always allow someone who hasn'tsung a chance to sing over someone who is already on thier third or dourth song. It is only fair. Otherwise I stick to the rotation.
I totally agree with peeves 2 and 3 as well as likes 1,2,3 and five.
as for number 4 once I go to all computer I won't be able to allow people to bring their disc- they can tell me what version they have and if I deem it a better quality to what I have already or if it is actually an unplugged version or something like that then I'll go out and buy the version to add to my system. I intend to have only one version of each song on my systm by the time I am done and it will be the best version out there- determined first by graphic quality, then by audio.
as for six I believe any wasted vocals unless the show is slow takes up too much time so I go with very short intros for each singer. I joke with the customers off mike to save time unless they are taking extra time getting up to the mike. If they do I take that time to announce any specials that the bar is having.

[MaddMatt]

I am not sure this is the place for it but since it was already brought up.... :)

I think that a fair rotation is to leave people in the order their slip was put in.

"what about the latecomer?"

He'll learn to come earlier if he wants to sing. With anything else, timing is everything. If I show up for 9:00 show at 9:00 I do that so I know can I get in at least one song. Why would you punish the loyal guy who is there with some food and drinks in front of him for some guy who walks in the door 20 mins before you finish?

When you are playing pool or a video game in the same bar, do you have to stop playing when someone new comes in? People play in the order they came.

This is why I like a list over slips. When you get up to sing, you write your name on the list for another song. The rotation is out there for everyone to see and the KJ just works down the list. No one moves up and no one complains. Here is the order for everyone to see.

Madd Matt

never short on $0.02 :g

[flipper]

Matt

There are many different ways to run a rotation and I have found that they all have their merits. Remember what works in one venue may not work well in the next.

If I have a short rotation I add a new singers in at the end. If I have a big rotation, I lace new singers in about every 4th or 5th singer. The wait would be the same for the guy that came in at 9pm regardless where I stick the new singers. Rotation time is just that, total time to run thru the rotation before he sings again.

Those Folks that come in late usually are coming in from anonther venue and are excellent candidates for becoming one of my regulars. If they like the music selection, vocal mixing and place of business maybe they will come back with more folks next week, and come earlier. This is how I have built such a loyal bunch of regulars. Remember those folks that come in late are spending money too.

I have found no perfect way to run a rotation, no matter which way you do it you will not please everyone. I always run a fair one though! I will do my best to accomodate special requests but not at the expense of my customers.

Flip

[kedmison]

Flip,

Best I've heard yet!! I agree with you 100%. You do yours just about like I do mine. And I too have built a large following, so apparently I'm doing something right. And you're right; you're neber going to please everyone. Being "fair" is the main thing, and going by the "book" and never being flexiable is not always the "fair" thing to do. You said it all very well.


Kelly

[MaddMatt]

Flip

As the title of this thead confirms, I think that is an interesting perspective :g

In the end, if the Kj is trying to be fair and that is apparent then I guess any of the above ways will work fine.

Do you ever let the people know that you are sprinkling in new peope? For all the talking that KJ's do doing a show, it seems that some forget to keep everyone appraised of what is going on: Who is next, who is on deck, etc.

Madd Matt

[jahern]

So far I am only a singer. I did one job a couple of weeks ago, but that was more in the way of providing appropriate music for a retirement dinner and ceremony.

As a singer, I resent any method that is not first come first serve. The place I go to has a sign-up list. They tell people not to sign up again until after they have sung.

I am a regular, but then again I'm not. I'm not a big time drink buyer. I don't drink alcohol but I always keep my whistle wet with diet coke or something like that. I do understand the reality of selling product and recognize my importance when it comes to that. (I come in second) However I think in the sense of being a "Regular" I am an important part of the line-up.

I never resent when anybody sings, good, bad, early, late, group, solo, etc. as long as it's their turn. I would feel guilty if I felt someone was being held back so the regulars could sing. Sometimes I go on a Friday when they start early. It takes time to establish a rotation. I don't mind when someone finally gets the courage to sign up and they go right up. But when a decent rotation has been established, I feel like the Host is not considerate of my feelings when they start to put people in ahead of their turns. I don't think that it accomplishes that much in the positive. And I feel that it offends the people that come regularly and like to get up. (Don't we all?:g )

[George]

Jahern,

As a singer I agree with you 100%.

The best analogy I can think of is the case where you been standing in a check out line at the grocery store for 15 minutes or so and they grab the people from the end of the line to open a new register.

Really get's to you, doesn't it?...and the resentful feelings include not as much as the people who didn't have feelings enough to say " they have been waiting longer than me", as it does the establishment and mainly the checker.

I see no difference.

George

[danny_g]

Originally posted by MaddMatt
Flip

As the title of this thead confirms, I think that is an interesting perspective :g

In the end, if the Kj is trying to be fair and that is apparent then I guess any of the above ways will work fine.

Do you ever let the people know that you are sprinkling in new peope? For all the talking that KJ's do doing a show, it seems that some forget to keep everyone appraised of what is going on: Who is next, who is on deck, etc.

Madd Matt
forgot to mention that When I insert a new singer late I always anounce that what I'm doing is giving the new singer a chance to sing. Most of my regulars know this is how I operate and it has actually added more regulars to my shows. ANd I also encourage the latecomers to come in earlier so they get to sing more songs.
Usually they do come in because all the other KJ's in my area will let their friends or any good loking girl sing multiple songs before a newcomer gets a chance to sing and the newcomer's slip was in longer than their friends or the girl's slips. So they end up choosing to come to my show rather than my competition.

[flipper]

Depends on who Im putting them in front of. Usually I announce that there are x number of new singers coming into the rotation and that usually does it. Most of my customers understand that this will happen as the rotation grows. There are no suprises and I have never had anyone complain in 4 years.

You may or may not agree with this but it works great for my shows.

Flip

[jahern]

Flipper

I've seen a lot of human activity in my _ _ years. Someone usually complains about something. (If noone else, then give me a chance.) I am amazed at your track record.

Maybe I don't understand. (Not the first time) How do you mix people in?

This is my idea of a sign in sheet.

I sign my name, song number, disc and track number. (I look that stuff up in a book)

I take my turn with 4 other people lets say because only five other people are there that want to sing. After I sing, I sign up again. During one of my performances, someone comes in, it's her divorce day and she wants to sing "I Will Survive" with her friend. (She obviously doesn't care that someone sang it a half hour ago ) They sign up. Now the "rotation" has become 6 people without the Host having to Announce anything. I have to wait longer. That's to be expected. The Host just checks off the performances on the sign-in sheet.

"Miss Survival" is done. She and her friend were horrible but who cares. She has said her peace. "Rotation back to 5 without any announcement.

More people come in. The rotation grows and subsides without a lot of shuffling around on the part of the Host. It seems fair and efficient. How is another system better?

Even in this system, I've seen plenty of complaining from people about the length of time they need to wait when the Host is simply calling the people one at a time exactly as they are signed-in. (Totally Fair and un-biased) Of course it really starts to fly if the Host is calling people up out of order.

I have gone through the "Fill out a slip" system. I was in agony all night. Did this Jackel lose my slip? Is he constantly shuffling me to the bottom because I'm not one of his regulars?? When are you up honey, I have no idea!!

Anyway, do you mix people in ahead of what would be their normal time if they just signed up using a sign up sheet?

[Flipeoke]

I use the list system too, only once you sign up, that is your spot in the rotation. As new singers come in they get added to the bottom of the list. The only problem I have run into with this method, and it's a minor problem usually, is when a singer comes in just before I get to the end of the rotation, before I start at the top again. Hey as the saying goes timing is everything. Once in awhile someone will mention hey that guy/girl just got here and got to sing next...how come? I'll explain the rotation which usually satisfies the person.
Also if the person is new my show (usually when they come up and ask for request slips) I explain how my rotation works and most like it. If I am getting close to a singer on the list that hasn't put in their next song, and its a long rotation, I will go over to their table and mention they are up in 5 songs. If they miss their turn, I give them two options, to have a new spot at the bottom of the list, which then becomes their new spot, or to wait til I get back around to their original spot.

I accept up to three songs from a person at one time, after that it's sing one add one. This way one person can't 'reserve' all the good songs to sing.

It seems to work for me w/o any major complaints and my singers seem to like it.

Flip (the original :w a.k.a. Mike)

[MaddMatt]

All:

I think that all the points are valid. While I prefer working with a signup sheet and prefer singing wit KJ's that use a signup sheet, that's me.

Flipper knows that we don't agree on everything but if his system works for him that's all that matters. As long as he is communicating with his customers (which didn't usually happen in my cases of rotation tinkering) then everyone is on the same page and all is well with the world.

I like the signup sheet for all the reasons everyone else stated. But even there people can try to mess with it. I have seen people sign up under false names, use the "he's in the bathroom right now so I'll just sing it for him"excuse, try multiple duets in each rotation and other things to mess it up. As with anything, it takes monitoring. I do like the fact though, that everything is above board and you can see at a glance when you will be up next.

Madd Matt

[shortrounder]

Hate rotation that are not KEEP.

Just got home from singing ,third in rotation.About ten singers there at the start of the rotation.Five new people came in, they got put in rotation before the person who was fourth in rotation. She was now tenth. up to sing. By the next rotation I was moved to sixth in rotation ,(the five who came later were moved up.) By the time for my third song I was now eleventh in rotation. The woman who was Fourth at the start was now twentieth. The othe people were still at the top of the rotation.Fair no,but they will follow the KJ to all of the places he playes at.Do they spend more money ?No... they drink soda pop, and eat befor the get there. But they tip the KJ and
thats where he makes his money.If I did not like these people I would complaine, but its not there fault.

Thank you all who left answers to my coments.

shortrounder

[MaddMatt]

Shortrounder,

We've all been there too, so we know how you feel. There is no easy way to take care of this. The KJ may have just messed up and remembered which 5 came together but forgot where they went.

A list takes care of part of that as you can see where you are in the rotation and whether you want to put in another song. Or if the KJ only allowed one song in at a time, that would do the trick.

It's a tough thing to fix from the side of the table you are on unless you speak up.

Madd Matt

[shortrounder]

Hi Matt.
Thanks for the reply. Fun just to vent sometime. This not a problem that just happen last nigh, but all the time. He even forgot one singer.I did tell the KJ last night how unhappy hr is making alot of people. His answer was that he did not realize what he was doing.I aske him how that was,that as he has a list right in front of him.Thats when he said that,they follow him to all of his gigs so he felt that he owed them more. All of his other gigs are over 30 miles away. Over near where the people live.If they are following him it is to here not there.By the end of the night his list is so messed up, you can hardly fined you name.

shortrounder

[MaddMatt]

See, I find that really interesting.

If he is spreading out his gigd 30 miles apart, he has an excellent opportunity to attract "groupies" every where he goes. The fact that these people followed him 30 miles away is great but he had the opportunity to impress an entirely new crowd!

The favorites won't go that far everytime and he is already shunning the locals. Not good business.

I think, and many of you will probably agree, that if you don't play favorites and run a fair rotation then everyone will be happy. You will get regulars because of the sound, selection and personality. Playing favorites get you short term success but will hurt you in the long run.

Madd Matt

[joe's jams]

This is in reply to your original post (I know this thread has taken a different direction since then, but I had to say this.)

Before I start my reply, I would like to make one thing clear, althought I may me a new member to this forum, I am not new to karaoke or karaoke clubs. I am also not new to being a KJ. I have been one for 10 years. I do sing in my shows. There are times, often at the beginning of shows when people do not come up right away to sing, and I fill in this void by singing, not by DJ'ing. There have also been various times when I have received requests from the audience to sing certain songs. I also sing duets with singers when I am asked. I am not the only KJ who sings in their show. I have been to some very successful karaoke bars where the KJ sang. If the KJ is a very good singer and he/she is not doing it to excess, I do not see where this is bad for business. Other than the above instances, I never butt it to the singers rotation, I never sing more than one song in a row, and I don't allow the audience to sing more than one song in a row.

[kedmison]

I agree with you Joey. I always start the night off with the first song (also lets me know everything is working) and will keep my self in rotation for awhile. My crowd wants me to. Not breaking my arm but I do sing well and have a large varitey of styles. This allows me to pick things up when it comes back to me and everything is slow songs or viceaversa. Once I have a large group going I then back out of the rotation unless someone requests something. And even then I won't do the song until my spot in the rotation comes up again.

Kelly

[joe's jams]

Thanks, Kelly, for clarifying this. I would not want those KJ's that are just starting in the business to get the idea that they can't sing in their show. The only time that this is a really bad idea is if the KJ can't sing. We get quite enough people behind a microphone who can't sing, to add to this list ourselves. The majority of most of my audiences never sing and yet they always show up. They come to be entertained. I do what I can to keep them entertained during the show.

[SteveWalker]

I also start with the first song to check the sound system. I will continue to sing "once per rotation" until the rotation is up to about 6-8, then I back off unless I get a request. However, the KJ should accomodate singers who need a mate for duets.

Steve

[danny_g]

in total agreement with steve on the once per rotation and bowing out when you have enough singers to carry the show. that is how I do it. I f after I get enough singers to allow me to bow out I will only sing if a singer needs a mate on a duet. the only diet I won't do is the dreaded paradise by the dashborad light since I have the All Hits version and cannot pull off the baseball portion of the song.

[SteveWalker]

danny_g,

Good to hear from you again. We did lots of Johnny Cash tributes Friday night. :) I need some blow-up guitars and horns and lights to brighten up my show. I'm thinking about starting a band again cause the karaoke hours just seem forever these days.

Steve

[MaddMatt]

All:

Thanks for keeping the thread going. I always find other people's insights to be informative and educatiional.

I don't disagree that you should sing a song to get things going. Where I have a problem is when the KJ is in the normal rotation of 6 singers or more. Why? Because many people come to K to get their moment in the spotlight, you are there to make that moment happen. The better job a KJ does at making that moment happen (lights, sound etc), the more popular they will be. It's like the DJ who talks too much, just get back to the music! Go out on your night off and sing a little to get it out of your system if you need to.

There is an easy answer to those people who request you to sing a solo, "sorry, I can't. Why don't you try it?"

As for duets, I have no problem with that but again I would look to another patron of the establishment to bring up first.

again, this is just a perspective from someone interested in Karaoke, NOT a full tim KJ. Heck I might be one of your customers sending you a wakeup call!

Madd Matt

[SteveWalker]

MaddMatt, Thanks for the info but I think you should become a professional singer. :g

Steve

[MaddMatt]

Steve:

That is exactly what I am thinking when I see the KJ singing. If you want to sing every night, join a band or just hire yourself out as a one man show and sing all night.

The bars bring you in so that people will come and spend money while being entertained. My point has always been that before you assume you know what the patrons want, you should check. Just because one person asks you to sing every night, doesn't mean everyone wants you to.

I have talked to many regulars at establishments all over the country and my initial "interesting perspective" was the feedback I was given. I was just sharing, no one has to heed the advice.... but then don't blame me if your competition does.

DJ's shouldn't try to tell jokes all night and KJ's should let the people sing :g

Madd Matt

[SteveWalker]

MaddMatt, of course I agree that when you get to 6-8 singers the rotation is long enough for the customers who came to sing and I don't need to either fill in time or increase their wait. I have singers come to my shows all the time with CD holders with over 200 CD's inside them. That's more CDG's than many KJ have. Many of them are good singers and bring in their friends. In this case it should be intuitive that my show is "not just about me". Some KJ's go by the name "U-Star Productions" if you know what I mean. I think MOST KJ's understand all this and although most KJ's like to sing, they really just are out to have fun and make a little money. For me, I sang in bands for many years and more recently in the Clearwater Chorus with many professional singers, musicians and teachers.

Steve

[bubba1453]

MaddMatt,

Your right on the public is there to sing. I just got rid of a guy that sang all the time. he would have a list of 30 songs that he like to sing. would sing background on songs without asking the singers. would always finsh the night with him singing. He was a problem child.

[jaddams]

I recently returned from a short trip to Palm Beach where I went to take two of my three children to college. While I was there, I decided to go to a karaoke bar, nice place, gorgeous atmosphere, I couldn’t wait until the show started at 9pm so I could sing in such a nice place.

Exactly 1 ½ hours later (10:30 to be exact,) I left that place totally disappointed because of a very unprofessional KJ.

The sound system was great, Shure M-58 microphones, CDG’s and LaserDisk players, the place even had singer’s monitors, the works!

What was missing? A professional KJ. The one performing that night was an outright frustrated amateur singer who used the bar’s owner facility to showcase his louse singer.

Eight songs he sang within that 1 ½ . Eight songs even thought there were several singers waiting to be called. Three of them were sitting next to me at the bar with the same complaints I had.

What happened later? I have no idea; I left that place to never come back again on a karaoke night. I go to Palm Beach often t see my children, now we go other places and so do most of my friends.

The day I see a DJ dancing every other song spun by him, that’s the time I would find another place to go dancing.

Regards,

Jon

[S. Parks]

Boy Flip, he must have slapped raw nerves with you on that one. You take exception to most of his suggestions as though you may have been accused of personifying these things he mentions. I think as You yourself said, that for the most part his advice would be sound advice for anyone to be successful with any kind of business. Basically, if the shoe fits wear it. Otherwise I personally don't know why one would find these veiws so distubing. Just my opinion.

[MaddMatt]

All:

I don't know exactly who the last post was referring to, but I'll reiterate that I was never trying to piss off anybody with my posts.

Are they basic to a number of businesses? Yes!
Do most Kj's have a long background in self-emplyement? No!

If they are common sense to you, Great! My goal was to provide an "Interesting Perspective" to KJ's out there.

I am glad that some people took it to heart and also happy to hear that others already heed the advice.

Madd Matt
www.maddmatts.com

[MaddMatt]

All:

I don't know exactly who the last post was referring to, but I'll reiterate that I was never trying to piss off anybody with my posts.

Are they basic to a number of businesses? Yes!
Do most Kj's have a long background in self-emplyement? No!

If they are common sense to you, Great! My goal was to provide an "Interesting Perspective" to KJ's out there.

I am glad that some people took it to heart and also happy to hear that others already heed the advice.

Madd Matt
www.maddmatts.com

[MasterJP80]

MaddMatt, you have started one hell of a conversation. Like Flip ( I believe), I have been in the business for 10 years. This is a business. I am very good at it and people say so. The area I live in has many companies. However, the ones that charge to undercut, are slow fading over the horizon. The reason I make good money and have been at my locations for a long period of time, is because I pay attention to business. For instance, I will interject a song with 140 BPM if to many ballads are being sung. I want the audience to get into the show, not fall asleep. Do I sing all the time? No, but, I do work the audience to get their temperature. I am doing business.

I do weddings, pool parties, BBQ cookouts, birthdays and the bars. I would not get all these shows if I did not do business. Nobody wants cheap. Everyone knows you get what you pay for. Thanks Flip.

[sevekj]

I finally just got through reading through all of the threads.
It was entertaining and informative.
Thank the Lord there are conscientious KJ's out there.
I have been in the biz now since 95, I discovered it in 91 at a company christmas party, I was well known for my Elvis act and I used to perform at the city Playhouse intermissions and for assorted events. I heard Karoake for the first time at my company christmas party and they were playing the background music to a variety of songs while we were eating our catered dinner, then Elvis, Suspicious Minds began playing and I was amazed at the background and how real to the original it was. Well I signed up right away, I was pretty new to the company at that time so most everyone did not know of my Elvis act, besides I was kind of shy about revealing it at the time, but that was soon going to change. I normally just played simple songs with my guitar, but know I would have a full band playing just like the real thing. Well, to make a long story short, I slayed them that night and won all kinds of prizes and everybody new me as Elvis after that. Now, I am a KJ and an Elvis Tribute Artist, I have sang with the Jordanaires in Las Vegas and Memphis and have been enjoying welcoming crowds for over 10 years.
I have been a KJ for 9 years, I did not own even one CDG before starting the business, I bought my business after considerable research and a stroke of luck. I began locating karaoke clubs to perform my act in and I began paying attention to how the KJ's ran their shows and took care of their business, I learned from the best and the worst. Long story short again, I no longer do Mobile gigs, I do 7 days a week, I own the business and have 2 hired KJ's that I have trained to do the business when I can't, they really don't do the business, I do the business, they just host the show the way I have taught them to do on my nights off, I take care of all the behind the scenes stuff, you guys in the biz know what I am talking about.
Ok, sorry I have mounted a rotation board (to get to the meat of the subject) I created it from a dry erase board framed and very professional looking and set in thirty spots on it.
First singer ME! Always me first, (this makes sense to most good KJ's) then introduce the first victim I mean singer (just a joke everybody always laughs) They have already been written into slot 1 on the board, everyone sees it, and when I don't know who is up I look at the board or I will ask the audience to help me out and tell me who is next (another joke, gets the audience involved) this goes for every swinging singer, they get on the board (sign up sheet for some of you) and they remain there through out the night. Example : Busy night first rotation crazy 30 singers rotation was built up to 30 in the first 15 minutes rotation full come back tommorow earlier or stay and I will put you on the bottom of this list when space allows ie: people leave the premises or forget to sign up again and get dropped from the list, although if I see them which I pay special attention to all customers and singers in the lounge I will allow them to remain on the board as long as I have their slips. As long as you are at my show you will sing after the person you sang after all night unless they leave or are dropped from the board for lack of slips (usually meaning they have left or when they finished Pardise City their throat was history so they opted to pass on the rest of the week.) I have a little recipe box that I use as my working tool to place their professionally made slips 4X6 and there are 30 slots, once you are in that slot you stay in that slot and if you want you can bring me 20 slips, I will play them in the order you hand them to me, I place them in the appropriate slot standing upright and in front of the slot and when the song is finished I place it in the back of the same slot only lay it on it's side and in back of the rest of the slips in the slot. At the end of the evening I save the slips of all the regulars and if a new singer request I save their slips I will after they come to my show 5 times I make them a personal bag with their Name on it and it goes into this cool container I bought at walmart which holds over a hundred different bags of all my regulars, I use top quality Ziplock bags to store each singers slips, they love it. My rotation is the fairest in Land and I get nearly no complaints. There is a lot more to my rotation than what I have mentioned here now. I will input more later as it is nearing time for me to run my show. Toodle oooo!

Seve

[kedmison]

I too save the singers song slips, but rather than a ziplock bag, (once someone has become a regular) I provide a little binder clip that I put on their slips and they take them with them when they leave. Saves them time looking up their standards and saves me slips!

Kelly

[sevekj]

Originally posted by kedmison
I too save the singers song slips, but rather than a ziplock bag, (once someone has become a regular) I provide a little binder clip that I put on their slips and they take them with them when they leave. Saves them time looking up their standards and saves me slips!

Kelly

I think I remember reading about your clip thing.
What exactly is it? Like a paper clip, how do you keep a file. Or do you just let them take it home. I know if I did that, they would always forget it at home and still have to fill out new slips.
I use the ziplocks, cause I find they are just the right size, sandwichbags for the slips and I use a standard type mailing label and stick it in the upper center of the bag to put their name on it and I use a box to file them alpabetically by first letter in first name and when they come to the show I have the box out where they can paruse through and find their own bag. plus when they take them to their table they are protected as long as they are in the bag from spilled beer and the like.
Well I gotta go now, later Kelly, thanks for the reply.

Seve

[SteveWalker]

I agree that you should file the slips as a personal service to the customer. Giving the slips to the customer means that he/she has to remember to bring them but more importantly he/she could just as well take the slips to someone else's karaoke show! :w Kinda self defeating isn't it. The majority of my singers bring their own CDG's to the show and all I need from them is one slip all night with their name on it.

Steve

[kedmison]

Well for one, they DO remember to bring them back. Once in a blue moon a regular will for get. Not all regulars use a clip to save their slips. Also MY slips wouldn't do them any good at another karaoke place because my numbers wouldn't match some else's system. I also have on my slips my name, phone number and email for advertising purposes. I wish they would take them to other venues.

Very seldom do my patrons bring their own discs. Why, I don't know. Usually someone who does bring their discs, does not seem to bring them back the second time. Not sure if it's they like my selections or what. I have almost 7,000 songs. With no dupes. When I buy my discs, I pick out what version, (Sound Choice, Chartbuster ets. ) I generally prefer S.C. but have found other versions I like better. If my patron doesn't like my particular version then they can bring their own.

I guess I'm doing something right. I only do this part time. I am a full time fire chief and am currently doing karaoke 3 nights a week at the same place. Sunday, Monday and Wednesday. Monday night is the biggest night. It has begun to out do the bands they have on the weekends. And I have been at this same place going on my third year.

A little more information while I'm sharing ideas...

I also for my convience use Micro Studio to put my discs together before I put them into Hoster. I do not use the data bas option in Hoster. When I first started karaoke I begin with a Sony 400 player and Micro Studio. As I bought my original discs, I would attempt to copy as close to 20 songs per disc. I did this to save space in my player. As Hoster has no come along I still do this. I have about 12 discs coming in from Ebay this week. Once disc may have only 4 songs on it that I want or need. Another one may have 12. I record these into my desk top computer and when I have a least 20, I copy these to a compiled disc, Put my origianl discs away, load the compiled disc into Hoster, and file my compiled disc into my Sony 400 which is my backup.

For example "I love this bar" is listed as #31808 in Hoster. If my MTU laptop was down for any reason, I could use my Sony 400 and I would know that #31808 in my song books was also Disc #318 Track 8. Also by having a compiled disc, I may find down the road that I like a better version of i.e. "I love this bar" I'll then take my compiled disc out recopy all but song number 8 and then recopy with the new version. My original discs are never used but one time and then they are put away for safe keeping.

Is this a lot of work, most would say yes but it a system that I have come to like. Haven't had to use my back up player yet. Knock on wood. Have beeen using my MTU laptop for over a year now, never failed. Only once did I have to cut short a night and that was operator error. The Sony's Day's are numbered. I will be looking at externall drives in the future. Sorry for getting so winded. As always, Great Job MTU!

Kelly:w

[kedmison]

Ok, I've shared some knowledge, now I need some anwsers. I've have been using Excell for some time to do my books. I'm wanting to do it in a different format but not sure how to do it. My current format is like this: i.e.
Beatles A HARD DAYS NIGHT 10815
Beatles ACT NATURALLY 26219
Beatles ALL MY LOVIN' 920
Beatles ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE 26216

What I want to do is this:

Beatles
A HARD DAYS NIGHT 10815
ACT NATURALLY 26219
ALL MY LOVIN' 920
ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE 26216

I have seen this used before and it seems to take up less paper and makes a more atractive looking book. I don't need a program that has a data base. I just want to be able to convert my excell into this format. Any ideas.

Thanks,

Kelly

[S. Parks]

KJpro will make a book in that format. Their Database is very good too. I still prefer Hosters book however, since it offers more flexibility to alter the appearance of the final product.

[Kathy_oke]

Originally posted by SteveWalker
Giving the slips to the customer means that he/she has to remember to bring them but more importantly he/she could just as well take the slips to someone else's karaoke show! :w Kinda self defeating isn't it.



I'm very new here. I've browsed through some of these threads and cannot help but respond to this one.

Singers WILL take their song tags to other shows. I've found my song tags on the floor of other venues. Personally, I found that to be a thrill!!!

What I did with mine was to put my regular venue location, telephone number, a Map and my hours on the back ... in essence, I turned it into a business card ... one never knows who will see it!!

~ Regards ~

[crazycarl]

I have read this post till I'm sick. you stated that the karaoke host"IS NOT THE TALANT" I wish you were with me tonight, for every karaoke singer there is some where a host that got them through the shyness for there first song. It is more work than you think to keep a crowd of 40 or 50 people entertained. Come Join me for a week, and you will find that this bussiness is a lot of work.
crazycarl

[swany]

Every so often, go to some other place that is a busy place with a lot of regular clientel and see what they do that you don't and like any good entertainer use what you learn, the first KJ like a new parent had no prior expierience you can learn by doing or ask someone you know and respect, like the elder of the KJ group that seems to get along with everybody, the people you are visiting are probably doing the best they can but by all means get into a good rig and take your notes with you and see how many of your list rules you break the first year I'd be willing to wager all of them at least twice a month. Do have a good show and remember all the mistakes you make and hope your regulars will forgive your mistakes. Above all do have fun every show, you are after all behind the mike and in the entertainment business.
Good luck and God bless.

[Garry A. Leslie]

Hello All,
Reading through this thread again, I get the impression that the US hosts karaoke venues with massive audiences, which obviously gives rise to the need to make rotation and whatever method of signing up people fair.
I have only been to one in the Mint Lounge, San Francisco
Here in the UK a lot of venues are small and often badly run. A lot of KJ's are incompetent and I would imagine they are the same in any other job they do.
They do all the things which we all accept as bad, on a regular basis.
When I run a karaoke I follow most of the accepted rules to run a good show and still make mistakes.
I sing well enough to have been offered engagements by bars and clubs to sing a programme for an evening, not karaoke.
I try to sing in my natural voice and not copy the singers on the records, although as most karaoke singers would agree, sometimes you get caught up in style of the song. I offer Tony Bennett as an example, you rarely hear other singers tackle his material (except leaving a heart in SF), because the songs he sings seem to have been written for him.
I have been in bars, hosting karaoke, where 100 people have sat all night without ever wishing to get up and sing, in this case the KJ had better be able to sing well. You can see the relief on their faces when someone they know can sing, walks through the door.
I was at a show last night, where the KJ starts off singing to quite a small crowd, he then gives anyone he knows the chance to sing 2 songs together. Ones he doesn't know get to sing 1 song.
Once he has started this he keeps this going even when the crowd swells with known singers. Towards the end of the evening he asked me to do 2 songs, I had to tell him I was doing one because of the number who were still waiting.
He didn't get it!!
And he's one of the better ones. I am sure a lot of you guys would be severely ticked off singing over here.
Regards from across the pond.
Garry