So You Want TO Be A Star

[infoby]

I was reading the post (back in October) all of you had about putting song at the web site for others to hear, and yes the copy write laws do present a problem here.

But we are all over looking one very important item here. Why not make this site a new artist friendly site where it gives the information and help to copy-write their own songs and music, then once this is done they can feel comfortable enough to start posting their own music, and let their talents build their own fan clubs.

For those of you that have the ability to turn these songs into Karaoke disc, could work things out with the artist to help them distribute their music in Karaoke arena. If they become popular enough, it will be hard for the Music Industry to overlook them.

Dave

[jim in ohio]

That would be cool, but the person posting the song would need to be the song writer, (music, and lyrics) to be the holder of the copyright that they could sing. Don't know many karaoke singers that have that ability.

Jim

[infoby]

The Average Karaoke Singer probably Not, but if they are good enough to become nationaly know artist they probably have some one who does it for them. Plus the fact if word got out to the people that do have this talent watch these boards light up.

Dave

[George]

My only question is how is Dave Cox supposed to monitor who has copywrites to the material they post and who doesn't, to protect the integrity of his forum? When you guys get that all doped out without having to place a load on him, you might have something. I don't see him running the risk, but that's just an opinion.

George

[infoby]

As always there are things to get around orginal music is easy enough to track if you have your copywrite you can post it with your song, for two reasons the one we have mentioned of course, the second to keep people from wanting to steal some really good material.

If you have a great song, what better proof its yours than putting it on a public forum. If "Who Let the Dogs Out" pops up of course it will run up the red flags and be removed imediately, on the other hand if my song, My Roads shows up posted with my copy write, its my song and music and I am entitled to do anything I want to with that song.

Now since its getting so hard for young artist to get noticed, (and I don't mean age) its time we die hards that love music get a little brave and test the waters, to find new ways to help them get noticed and I for one would welcome any fresh new music.

Dave

[George]

True, but shouldn't Mr. Cox be consulted first to determine if he's receptive to the idea, before stirring up the waters? After all this is his site.

[infoby]

It has been my experience that if anything ever gets posted here is checked daily the people at MTU monitor, these sights very closely, and if anything is moving in the wrong direction they kindly and politely steer you away from things they care not to participate in. And as long as it builds stronger customer loyality. And more visits to their site, I can't see why he wouldn't want to participate, and helping people get that opportunit that they might not get the chance to every have their stuff Played in a public environment.

Dave

[jim in ohio]

I still stand by my first post, there are very few karaoke singers with the ability to write their on material. I can't see this forum being the location for those few to be discovered, and be tomorrows stars.

Jim

[SteveWalker]

da! :r

[jim in ohio]

Steve
Would you like to further expand on that??

The format of this forum as I see it is mostly for KJ's backing up, or computer playing CD+G's. As for the average joe karaoke singer, I doubt that very many even know that this forum is here or the software this forum is in support of is even on the market.

Jim

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by jim in ohio
[B]Steve
Would you like to further expand on that??

Yeah, what you said! :c We are here to buy Hoster and learn how to be lowly KJ's. Not here to be song writers and International Rock Stars. :g

Steve

[George]

da!!:r

[jim in ohio]

da!!:r

[SteveWalker]

:t

[infoby]

Be what it may, every Karaoke singer I know would love to be the person that people love to listen to, that?s what makes Karaoke so popular, or they just love to sing.

The reason I mentioned this, is for the following reason, some time back if you wanted to become the next latest and greatest you made your self a demo then had hundreds of copies of it made then you hit the road getting every radio station that would listen to you to play your record, until you were popular enough that the recording studios would take an interest in you.

Then the talent agency or reps got involved and they started locking up every radio station in the country, so they could regulate who got heard. If you were lucky you might get a chance to play your demo to a studio but for the most part they wouldn't even talk to you if you didn't have an agent. And a good one at that.

So along comes Karaoke now this gives those who are great but can't make it in the world of who makes and who doesn't (mainly because they didn't have enough money to make, not because they don't have the talent.) A chance to be the star they had always hoped to be, they sing other peoples music, because that is what is available. Would they sing their own stuff, you bet if they had the opportunity.

Now the bottom line is how does this effect MTU and companies like them and their products, In MTU?s case, they build everything to accommodate this type of singer, Karaoke Home Pro for making their own Karaoke Disk, they build Hoster a system to play their Disk, and the ability to access a great deal of forums, so they can get ideas from other singers and musicians, ideas of great and fun things to do, and access to a company that sells all of the supporting products.

This forum is titled Singers & Host this just pertains to the singing side is all. Just food for thought.

David

[SteveWalker]

infoby,

Now I know why I never had a Gold Record after reading your post! :s The bottom line is: I'm waitin for MTU to open all the doors. :)

Steve

[George]

Couldn't disagree more that Karaoke is full of wannabe professional stars. If it is then it has lost it's purpose which is to give the average person like George who in some other's opinions may or may not be able to sing at a professional level the opportunity for three minutes to be a star. And that's what it's supposed to be about, not a stepping stone to the big enchilada, nor do I see anything in MTU that's geared towards anything other than providing tools for the Karaoke hobbyist to play with.

No one tells a singer what material they have to use, and if the clubs were full of aspiring stars you'd hear more original material being sung. If they don't have guts enough to do that, then nothing in this world will make them a star, 'cause they couldn't cut it anyhow.

George

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

I have to say that I am disappointed with the abruptness of the dismissals that David's idea is receiving. Whether it has merit or not is up for discussion, which I believe is the purpose of this Forum. I was lead to believe that this Forum was for the free exchange of ideas and experience. If you think an idea is unworkable it is, of course, your prerogative to say so, but chaps, can you not be a little more constructive? Most of your remarks are at best unhelpful and quite frankly border on the rude. I thought better of you.

[SteveWalker]

Hi Lauraine,

It's nice to hear your voice again. We are being a little silly tonight with our big grins. Karaoke IS for everyone and I hear all kinds of singers from one extreme to the other. The "ouch singer" to the "international rock star" but mostly rank amateurs.

If someone here has aspirations to starting a singing career you need to learn from professional musicians. First, you may want to have some professional voice lessons. Second, you need to learn how to sing and work with live musicians instead of watching lyrics and a bouncing ball. There are many many many forums to go to that focus on these two issues. In addition, there are forums to learn recording and how to apply your instruments and vocals to recording. Forums for recording is where you will find professional musicians and studio owners (small and large) where you can post your mp3 for sharing your original material and copyrighted songs.

Professional musicians are simply not interested in karaoke. In the past, we used to go out to watch live bands before karaoke came to town. Now, karaoke is often used for local entertainment to keep the costs down and to let ameteur singers in on the action just for fun! :)

Steve

[George]

Lauraine, for the most part I could care less either way whether this idea flies or not. I do believe though that rude got introduced into this thread when the suggestion that Dave Cox be given the courtesy of being asked if he would consider this type of activity and its associated threat to his well being taking place on his website was brushed aside without any consideration. I don't mean rude to me, but to Dave Cox.

The threat of illegal file swapping is a real issue in this proposal, and was brushed off very adroitly. It would be a nightmare to monitor regardless of how simple it may be made to appear. It was suggested that copywrites could be posted with the material submitted. I have several copywrited pieces of material of my own, and can download Shortform P.A. from the U.S.Copywrite website. I do whenever I need one for submission. I own a p.c and a copy machine. In a half hour I could make you a Copywrite Certificate Of Registration that would look very authentic, indeed,especially after having been scanned as an attatchment.

Anyone professes to be so observant of Dave's Cox's practices on these forums as the originator of this thread claims to be, should have no difficulty noticing that due to heave constraints with Hoster, Dave Cox has not been his usual active self in monitoring the activity on the forums, and well understandably so.
That's why I suggested Mr. Cox be consulted, and as simple as that would be to do through a private message, why is it being avoided ?

Considering all these points,so now you tell me who's from rude?

George

[infoby]

For Whom it may concern, I did not avoid the post at all, when I bought my Karaoke Pro Machine From Dave Cox, He and I talked about this very topic for quite some time and the main purpose of my purchasing the Karaoke Pro Machine was to establish a new way for the budding star to get his or her music distributed, so other people could enjoy it and may be they can be discovered and launch a career.

Because I key their music in on a Karaoke Disc then we distribute them to all of the local KJ's and invite them to play the disc, I do this for free for some of the kids that would like to get their music noticed. We haven't made any one a star, but we have gotten several of them steady work in the local establishments.

As far as illegal file swaping, I don't see anywhere in my post that I even indicated that might be a remote possibility. I am talking about original music of these artist. Not copy-write stuff.

Just because its not something you see in the Karaoke singing doesn?t make it gospel, in my work I travel allot and I have sang Karaoke in about 40 of the states and over a 100 major cities, and if you think pros don't like Karaoke just go to the Las Vegas Karaoke Bars where they use the Karaoke Bars to audition for all of the shows in Las Vegas, Or go to Lynn Andersons, Karaoke Bar in San Diego and sit there in awe as Professional after professional get up and sing. I have been to places like that all over the country.

But Ladies and gentlemen, I made a suggestion based on your own post from last October; I just was not able or aware of the post at that time. I thought what you were talking about was a god idea and felt it warranted a little more attention.

So no, I was not being rude to Dave Cox, my ideas on this subject were discussed with him personally on the telephone one on one. Was using the forum discussed, no it was not. I?m interested in everything MTU does, and its of great interest to me since I represent the company in selling Hoster out here in the west, I would not sponsor or promote anything that could cause the copywrite police to come crashing through the doors.

All that I ask, is if you are going to accuse me of something please give me the courtesy of asking me first If I have taken the proper steps or even mentioned my ideas to the people it could effect. I stand to make a considerable amount of money off of this Hoster product. I would not do anything to foul that up.

I have a strong passion for music, both armature and professional, I can't help it, anyone who wants to try do something positive with music has my support and vote.

George, you are probably one of the most active members of all of the MTU Boards and you have an something to say in most of them and many of your post in the beta testing of Hoster has given me a much better understanding of the product, and I respect the fact that you don't mind speaking you piece, but you are wrong about me, I am a dedicated advocate of MTU.


David

[jim in ohio]

Infoby,
Have you looked at the singers forums that exist now like:

http://www.singers.com.ar/forum.htm

There are many more, but this linked site has singers demo's on the site for people to listen to.
I used Google, with the search words 'singers forum' and hit pages of nothing but singers looking to be discovered, it also listed karaoke venues for workshops. I believe if I was a talent agent looking for a future star, I would first look at a singers forum, instead of a software support forum.

But that's only my opinion.

Jim

[George]

David,
Then you have my sincere apology. I was acting on what I saw. When I first mentioned checking with Dave Cox, you could have simply said it had been done, and that issue would have been closed.

As Far as illegal file transfer, I brought that in because no matter what the intent of the forum you suggest, rest assured that will occur. There are those who would record themselves on a copywritten piece of material and submit it as original just to be able to hear themselves singing on the web, and as I pointed out it would not be hard to provide "evidence" of copywrite. I consider myself to be an honest person, and if I can come up with a way to so easily produce a phony copywrite certificate, then so could anyone else

All that out of the way, as a singer and holder of several pieces of original copywritten material, I wouldn't be interested in participating. Nor do I blame the system that these pieces will never see publication. That's my responsibility.

I think it's sad that the pro's are starting to dominate the karaoke scene, even to the extent (as has been mentioned elsewhere on these forums) of running to the contests and literally "stealing" the money from those who it was intended for.

You keep referring to the October post, but overlook that it didn't generate much interest either.

Once again my apologies for a misunderstanding that could have been easily avoided, but you must admit that you continued to make it appear that there was no reason to check with Mr. Cox, therefore implying that you hadn't.

George

Lauraine,
I think you might have misread some of what was going on. The series of "da's" that went around were not directed at David, but in a tongue and cheek manner at each other, and at their originator, Steve Walker. I can only assume that's wahat you were referring to, as everything else was just straightforward no to the idea.

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

Yes, George, you are mainly right. It was the series of Das that I may have misinterpreted. Always a problem when dealing with similar but different languages. I am relieved to read the explanations.

Best wishes

[infoby]

Jim I thank you for the new Link, I did not have that one, I have not checked it out yet I will when I have a little more time. And I have several of them myself.

And Gentlemen and Ladies, I consider this group some of the most sincere and honest people I have ever met, that love music as I do. And yes, I have a foot locker myself full of music I have written but more importantly I have tons of music written by some very good young talent, people that make my stuff look like it was written by Elmer Fudd.

Question where do you go to help them, to teach them how and where to get a copy write on their stuff, where can they can go to find good honest musicians that will tell them the truth and not steal their stuff, my respect for all of you lead me to believe this might be the place. I have found nothing, for the most part, but straight forward honesty, some times brutally honest, but honest nonetheless.

All that you say is true, there is always some one trying short cut or find the easy way and your right some may try and record some music that holds a copy-write just to be heard, that?s when we kindly remind them the purpose of your intent.

Good Idea or Bad Idea the point is its and Idea!

When I read a title of a thread that suggest Singers and Host I guess I missed the Software tie. And no I didn?t miss the fact that it didn?t get much interest at that time, that was the very reason I brought it back up.

David.

[George]

Looking more all the time that what we had here was a failure to communicate.

Reminds me of the story of the blacksmith who was breaking in a new helper. He told the youngster "I am going to hold this horsehoe in the fire until it reaches a certain glow, when it does I'll put it on the anvil, and when I nod my head, you hit it hard with that hammer."

George

[SteveWalker]

Gosh guys, it's only karaoke! :r :g :c

[kjzone]

Little known area of the Law:

When you as a singer, record a song, even without the permission of the song writer or composer, you now OWN the COPYRIGHT of the song you RECORDED.

[SteveWalker]

kjzone,

If that were true, that means that about 100 times a day a songs' COPYRIGHT will change ownership. :w

Steve

[George]

I'd be interestd in finding out the source of that one. Haven't seen it in any of my copywrite research. Seems to nullify the purpose of even having copywrite laws. I guess it could mean you own the copywrite to your version of the song, assuming the music is arranged different, recorded by a live band and not a copy of the original or copywrited Karaoke cdg. Dunno if that even makes sense.There is something in the copywrite law that refers to one not being in violation if they substantially change the material**. Considering how many different artists do the same song there has got to be some foundation there. Don't see how that can apply to the lyrics per se. More shades of gray.

George

** http://www.nolo.com

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

Happy Thanksgiving to all my American friends and colleagues

Best wishes

[SteveWalker]

Thanks Lauraine and happy holidays! :)

[jim in ohio]

the reply by kjzone about the copyright laws got me thinking, He said:
___________________________________________________
quote
"Little known area of the Law:

When you as a singer, record a song, even without the permission of the song writer or composer, you now OWN the COPYRIGHT of the song you RECORDED".
___________________________________________________
After looking up some copyright laws I have discovered that not to be so according to Federal copyright laws, here is a link with those laws so you can read it for yourself:

http://www.riaa.org/Copyright-Laws-2.cfm

Jim

[kjzone]

jim in ohio......

"Little known area of the Law:
When you as a singer, record a song, even without the permission of the song writer or composer, you now OWN the COPYRIGHT of the song you RECORDED".

IS CORRECT SEE THE FOLLOWING>

From the Penn State Law Department:
The special case of music and sound recordings
Remember, copyright protects ORIGINAL EXPRESSION.
The song (music and lyrics) are original expression.

The way the song is performed is also original expression. When that performance is recorded, it becomes fixed in a tangible medium and is protected by copyright, separately than the copyright for the song itself. If you record your own version of the song, you have made a copy of the song and must pay the songwriter. However, you own the copyright to the recording itself and if someone wanted to use your recording of the song, they would need to get your permission to use the recording AND the songwriter'’ permission to use the song.

YOU OWN THE COPYRIGHT ON YOUR "ORIGINAL EXPRESSION OF THE SONG", EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T OBTAIN THE PERMISSION OF THE MUSIC AND LYRICS COPYRIGHT HOLDERS.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/m/x/mxj20/comm381/copyrightoutline.htm

[jim in ohio]

Read your own quote:

If you record your own version of the song, you have made a copy of the song and must pay the songwriter.

You must pay for the rights...

[kjzone]

That's correct......you still have an obligation to pay royalties to the original copyright holders........but the point I was making is that you have created a copyrighted song, which you own..by making a recording to fix media, under Original Expression, that if used by others, must pay you royalties.

[alanross]

kjzone's point is valid.

If I make a recording of "Up Up And Away" and USAirways likes my voice and the way I sing it, they would have to pay me to use my version of the song.

I would still have to pay royalties to whomever owns the copyright on the lyrics and arrangements, but MY version of the song would be due royalties for it's use.

That's what the section of the copyright law protects.

-Alan

[glendale]

Originally posted by kjzone
jim in ohio......

"Little known area of the Law:
When you as a singer, record a song, even without the permission of the song writer or composer, you now OWN the COPYRIGHT of the song you RECORDED".

IS CORRECT SEE THE FOLLOWING>

From the Penn State Law Department:
The special case of music and sound recordings
Remember, copyright protects ORIGINAL EXPRESSION.
The song (music and lyrics) are original expression.

The way the song is performed is also original expression. When that performance is recorded, it becomes fixed in a tangible medium and is protected by copyright, separately than the copyright for the song itself. If you record your own version of the song, you have made a copy of the song and must pay the songwriter. However, you own the copyright to the recording itself and if someone wanted to use your recording of the song, they would need to get your permission to use the recording AND the songwriter'’ permission to use the song.

YOU OWN THE COPYRIGHT ON YOUR "ORIGINAL EXPRESSION OF THE SONG", EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T OBTAIN THE PERMISSION OF THE MUSIC AND LYRICS COPYRIGHT HOLDERS.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/m/x/mxj20/comm381/copyrightoutline.htm