What do you do about "BAD" regulars?

[DennisH]

I've been running a karaoke show for several years, and since the beginning... my show has had a standard set of "regulars" who come to almost every show. It's usually a group of about 7 to 10 people, and while each and every one of them are nice people... I am having some problems.
1- These regulars have become way too comfortable around me. For instace, I have been aproached twice by one in particular who has asked me to lend him money! I refused, as I believed this would interfere with our "professional" KJ-customer relationship. Yet he had the nerve to ask again!
2. When my shows are busy... which they usually are... several of these regulars will become agitated when they don't get to sing more than one or two songs.
3. I am constantly having to listen to many members of the crowd complain about these "regulars", as they are much older than anyone else in the bar, and their music reflects that. For instance, I'll have 5 or 6 upbeat modern songs that get the whole bar moving, and then a regular will get up and sing "Crazy" by Patsy Cline... I realize that this is the nature of Karaoke, but I'm tired of listening to the crowds complaints!
4. Finally, the most important factor is that the majority of these regulars don't drink... and in effect... they don't spend any money at the bar! A couple of them literally drink water all night long!
I've even seen one of them fish a soda pop out of their back pack just so they wouldn't get charged for a drink!!!
The staff at two different bars that I work at have been complaining to me heavily over the last year about these regulars... and none of the waitstaff want's to wait on them!
I'm not sure how to handle this situation, because I don't want to say or do anything that would create hard feelings on any side... but I'm getting kind of fed up! Has anyone else here had this sort of problem, or am I just being an *******?
-D

[SteveWalker]

DennisH,

This sounds pretty much like normal mix of singers and those who don't like the old singers songs can just go somewhere else. You should just be friendly and fair to all newcomers and oldcomers.

Ask your singers to be sure to tip the bartenders and waitresses and hopefully peer pressure will help the bums to do the right thing. Bars obviously don't allow people to bring food and drink so have the manager of the bar ask them to leave.

Steve

[Cid_cat]

As the KJ, you should be able to control the mix to some extent. Take a look at the song list as it occurs and maybe move one or two songs to keep the mood going. Also, I try to encourage my regulars to try some newer music when the nights are slower. This helps them pick better songs to keep the crowd interested.
As for the money thing...just say no. One funny thing about regulars...they get mad..they ALWAYS come back. They just have to understand that you're treating every equal and explain to them it's about perception, depending on what side of the argument they're on. They wouldn't want to be treated as they are suggesting you do to someone else, therefore, you won't treat anyone unfairly. (did that make sense?)

The rotation is a tough issue. I average 30+ singers, 4 nights a week and they wait because they want to sing to a crowd. Funny how no one wants to sing to an empty room, eh?
Cid_cat

[Cid_cat]

If I'd read the whole post, I would have caught this earlier...soo....

About the water thing....some people just don't drink. Although they have a right to be there, they don't contribute to the club with money and thus it makes it hard to pay you. I solved this issue by encouraging the club owner to sell bottled water. Tehy still come..and now they spend money.
If you see someone bringing their own drink in, have the club deal with it. A bartender will handle it ASAP because they can be fined for that stuff, depending on the license of the club.

Thanks again...good post.
cid_cat

[DennisH]

Thanks for the advice!
Although, I have hinted to my customers that they need to order SOMETHING once in a while to appease the bar owners... and I think that's one of the main reasons I've been approached for a loan!
I believe that one or two of the regulars may believe that they are doing me and my show a favor by being there.
I'm dealing with some weird attitude's here... and I hate to judge... but a few of these folks are VERY strange individuals.
I am never ceasing to be amazed by their actions.
That's a good point, Cid_cat, about modifying the rotation a bit to keep things flowing... but amazingly enough, it is almost always brought to my attention when the rotation is fudged. Even when it's only a song or two!
I guess I already know what I have to do, as I believe I am facing some extraordinarily bad regulars... and I need to be a hard ass and tell them to fix their act, or find another show.
I've exhausted every other avenue over the last year with no improvement...
At least I've gotten some of this off my chest... It helps to talk to other people in the business.
Again, Thanks for your tips!
-D

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by Cid_cat
[B]As the KJ, you should be able to control the mix to some extent. Take a look at the song list as it occurs and maybe move one or two songs to keep the mood going. Also, I try to encourage my regulars to try some newer music when the nights are slower.

Cid_cat,

Those are good suggestions but don't forget that the singers expect a fair rotation which means you don't re-order the singers every time someone sings a song that is too slow...or...too old... or...whatever.

Most singers know what songs they can sing and what song they want to sing. Old farts aren't interested in singing newer music because they NEVER listen to it - da. :r If the customers want a specific type of entertainment, then they can hire their favorite band.

Karaoke is obviously overrun with ameteur singers who very often cause normal people to run for the door. :g

Steve

Above All Remember: "It's Only Karaoke"

[Wayne White]

Thank God for the regulars. It's these people who get us started when we go into a new club.

Yes some are bad singers, yes they sing 'ballads' and more 'ballads'. We try to lead by example and sing upbeat stuff when it's our turn. We also play a couple of current club dance tracks between rounds to change the mood and get people dancing.

We currently do 7 shows per week not counting the extra jobs we do on weekends and a good part of the crowd is usually people we consider regulars. I know some of them sip 2 cokes all night, or a bottomless cup of coffee (it's tough to spend alot of money when you go to karaoke every night, also hard to work if you get drunk every night), just remember this about bars, "people go where people are". Even a crowd who isn't spending a lot of money gives the appearance of being busy which will cause some people to stay who may have turned around and left if it was empty.

I may be dumb, but, I have loaned money to a few. Sometimes you get it back, sometimes you don't. Not because they are customers, but, because they have become friends over the several years I have known them.

Just my opinion.

Wayne

[Cid_cat]

Believe me, I know that people WATCH the rotation and they KNOW exactly when they're supposed to sing. It's amazing! I'm just saying that on occasion, the KJ MUST control the show, not the other way around, that's why you're being paid.

Sometimes you just gotta give em some tough love and let them know that you enjoy them being there but they don't have to be there for the show to go on. February will be 4 years I've been hosting shows and it's been a helluva learning experience. Karaoke is 50% singing, 40% people skills and 10% money. :f
At least for me...but I still love it and it's easier than working for someone else.

Cid_cat

[kedmison]

Cid_cat,

I agree with you. A lot of it has to do with the kj themselves. My groups have learned that after the first or second rotation that I try my best to work new people into the rotation. They know this and accept it because 1, it's my show, but 2 and more important, they know I'm trying my best to be fair to everyone. And we all know how long the rotations can take sometime. You have to let those new people in if you want them to become part of your regulars. The only people I have to contend with that get upset about not getting up quick enough are those that have already had too much to drink.

Just last week I had a guy want to make an announcement. His announcement started out that his table (who none were singing)was tired of hearing country. I don't sing a lot of country; mostly 50'&60's, but that crowd, that night was singing predominatly country. I took the microphone back and politely told him there were three possible remedies for his problem; 1. Find a song he wanted to hear and sing it. 2. Find someone who would sing it for him. OR 3. That we had both a front and back door and he could take his choice. To which the crowd stood and applauded. And believe it or not he came up to me afterward and apologized and admitted he had had to much to drink. Be fair, be firm, and be nice. Most of the time it works.

Kelly

[SteveWalker]

kedmison,

You don't have to kiss their ass to have regulars - just provide a good show. If the music isn't upbeat enough alternate upbeat DJ music for a while and keep the rotation in tact. I don't understand why he was allowed to take the mike in the first place?

Steve

[George]

The problems addressed here are not unique unto Karaoke. Most clubs have always been comprised of two groups; the entertainers, and those who come to be entertained. Karaoke is unusual in the sense that those being entertained become entertainers for three minutes a crack. Just because a club owner chooses to use Karaoke as his live entertainment media does not make that club "exclusive territory" for Karaoke enthusiasts only. There will always be those who come simply to be entertained.

What about those "regulars" who entertain not, and drink not, or even those who sing but do not spend? Are they to be branded simply because they don't get slopped faced like the "good old boys", the ones who you admit cause most of the problems?

This problem is not new and was taken care of generations ago by what used to be called a "cover charge". It was the usual practice, was expected to be paid at the entrance, and was accepted without question. During the course of the evening, in most any reputable club, the cover charge was credited against what drinks, meals etc. one purchased during the evening. If one chose not to drink, but came because of the live entertainment, they had the right to do so, having paid for the priviledge. This satisfied the problem you are now facing.

And what's wrong with Patsy Cline's "Crazy"? It's still selling. You who espouse only today's "upbeat" stuff will one day still be singing your favorites when they've become boring , so best be a bit more tolerant.

Brand me an old fuddy if you wish, but at least in my time they didn't have to put a little block on the envelopes to tell us where to put the stamp:)

George

[kedmison]

Steve,

I understand now why you and George seem to get into it from time to time. You seem to read these post from a different angle. I never once said or insinuated that I "kiss ass" towards the regulars. And "He" got the mike because I gave it to him. "My crowd" is usually a very good crowd. We sing, we also allow people to come up and tell jokes. So they do get to talk from time to time. Oh well. I Enjoy reading your posts. Even when I don't always agree with you.


Kelly
:r

[DennisH]

I agree with kedmison... George, you seem to want to take offense, when it's unnecessary.
I have no problems with patsy cline... Nor do I have a problem with people who do or don't get "slopped faced like the "good old boys"... the issue with that, was that they weren't spending ANY money at the bar at all!
And this goes to Wayne White...
Now you may argue that it's expensive to go to every karaoke show and drop a few bills every time... "(it's tough to spend alot of money when you go to karaoke every night, also hard to work if you get drunk every night)"... well in my opinion, the only solution to that is... DON'T COME TO KARAOKE EVERY NIGHT!
I have NEVER been out anywhere expecting entertainment for free... I'm afraid the world just doesn't work that way.
There are many times I would have liked to have gone out, but couldn't afford to. Should I have expected the movie theatre to let me in for free? Or the concert venue to sympathize and not charge me a dime for tickets?
Karaoke is entertainment, and EVERYONE who participates has an obligation to pay for it... and getting drunk is by no means the only solution. How about tipping the waitress who has been bringing you coffee or soda all night? I don't see what so wrong about expecting karaoke patrons to do at least that...

[George]

KEDMISSIONS REMARKS WERE NOT ADDRESSED TO ME.NOW WHO'S TAKING OFFENSE WHEN IT NEED NOT BE? I DIDN'T DIRECT MY REMARKS TO ANYONE SPECIFICALLY, DID I? SURE WENT ON THE DEFENSIVE FOR NO REASON.Y'ALL ARE THE ONES COMPLAINING ABOUT THE DRUNKS ALL THROUGH THESE KJ POSTS. DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO SPEND BIG MONEY AND STAY SOBER!!! YOU JUST MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. IN YOUR POST ABOVE YOU SAID SOME SPENT NO MONEY AT ALL, THEN COMPLAIN BECAUSE THEY DO NOT TIP???ALL I DID WAS MIRROR BACK EVERYTHING I'D BEEN READING IN A TONGUE AND CHEEK MANNER. CAN'T HELP IT IF YOU CAN'T SEE IT. NO OFFENSE WAS MEANT.

[DennisH]

Umm... yes George, they were directed at you AND Steve.
And dude... you need to seriously calm down or you're going to have a heart attack.

[George]

Dude...
I'm not the one who got all bent out of shape, and came back raising cain, so don't turn this around on me. In my original post, I simply expressed the point that the freeloaders had a right to be there. I also told you how this problem was dealt with in the past, because it has always been a problem. That was the main thrust of the entire post. I was not confrontational, but objective.

Now for something you'll probably really not want to hear. You started out wanting how to deal with the,"BAD"guys. That, frankly is none of your concern, unless they become argumentative, or start heckling. You job is to entertain, and the freeloaders are the "house's" problem. Do you really think that Frank Sinatra, or Dean Martin, or whoever got concerned because the guy at table 14 wasn't spending money? That was a concern of the house, and the cover charge or the minimum took care of that. Now if the club owners of today haven't gumption enough to do those things to solve the problem, knowing it worked in the past, it certainly is not the concern of the entertainer, so to answer your original question...what do you about the BAD guys(meaning non-spenders)...absolutely nothing. . It is not your concern.

George

[DennisH]

Do you make it a habit of always pointing out how wrong someones post is?
Look George... I know you're just trying to make me understand that my problem is not really my problem. Theoretically, you are correct, I suppose... but your simple solutions are no help in the real world in which I live.
I need to handle this problem, not ignore it.
Oh, and pardon me for raising so much cain...

[George]

Dennis,
I only make a habit of pointing out how wrong someone's posts are , when they try to make me out to be the ogre when I wasn't.

As I've already said, I sympathize with the freeloader problem, and can see the KJ's concern from the standpoint of making certain the club owner can foot the bills, but revenue is still the club owner's concern, and I'd most certainly discuss that with the owner, making it clear that I'd do my job and keep the crowd entertained, but revenue was his concern. The solutions are not theoretical. they worked for years, and somewhere along the line the club owners got gutless. Is it really any different than paying to get into those theaters you referred to?I think that's the most objective answer you can expect.

take care,

George

[SteveWalker]

Wow I almost missed all the excitement! :g kedmison I wasn't thinking of anyone HERE when I said "kiss ass", all KJ's have regulars not just you and me. Cid_cat said "As the KJ, you should be able to control the mix" and he is right but the mix doesn't have to be MIXING UP THE ROTATION which is seen by the singers as unfair. Just add some upbeat DJ music to fix it if need be.

I was razzin you a little about giving the mike :w but you're an alright guy and George is too. :) Hey! The next time the people at the table get sick of country music put him on stage to tell their jokes but make em promise not to complain to your singers about their choice of music. The policy is not to boo... the singers right?


George,
You know, these boys are alright!

Steve

[kedmison]

Hey guys,...

Take it easy. Boy did I open a can of worms. lol. For the record,...my post was NOT directed at George, it was directed at Steve. And no I'm not mad at anyone. I was just poking back.

Take a chill pill DennisH. lol.

Hey we all have different types of crowds and we all learn to handle them in the way that suits us best.

Let's all go to our corners....:g

Kelly

[SteveWalker]

Ok....until the next bell......have a great weekend! :c

[George]

Thanks Kelly. I read it that way, as it was clearly put. Anyhow, hope all concerned have a good weekend, (you too Steve):)

Take care,

George

[DennisH]

Originally posted by kedmison
Steve,

I understand now why you and George seem to get into it from time to time. You seem to read these post from a different angle.


Kelly
:r
Sorry kedmison... I assumed this was meant to be directed at George as well...
I didn't mean to drag you into anything, and I've obviously misunderstood the above quote.
I will take that chill pill, and from now on... I'll try not to reply to what people type, as they obviously mean something entirely different.

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

What an exciting post, I just have to put in my shilling's worth.

I agree with all the comments, especially

1. Thank God for the regulars. These people (we) are a useful commodity to a KJ in persuading a booker towards karaoke (or a disco) because (s)he can virtually guarantee patronage. Also, assuming they are behaving acceptably, provide a friendly and supportive core to the audience.

2. Karaoke shows are patronised by amateurs. It must be remembered that most participants of a karaoke have no access to musicians, and this is their only means of performing in front of an audience. And because they have no experience of a professional show they will have absolutely no idea about repertoire balance. They just want to sing their favourite songs. Thank goodness the days are long-gone when I have to sing songs I don't like just because they are popular and it was my job to give the public what they wanted.

3. Polite, helpful, supportive, but firm. It is not the KJ’s place to police a venue, but in the interests of everyone unacceptable behaviour MUST be dealt with. A quiet word in the offender’s ear should be tried first. If this fails then Management might have to be involved. Often the offender is unaware of the problem being created; a private word, sensitively spoken, can often work (softly softly catchee monkey) but not always, I’m sorry to say. As an ex-professional entertainer myself I am fully aware of the difficulties involved where delicate egos and booze are closely associated.

I understand that most, if not all KJs went into the business because it is a whole lot more fun than being a clerk or a street cleansing operative. Pardon me if I upset anyone (that is not my intention) but where is it written that you have an inalienable right to enjoy the songs your patrons sing? The important factor is the enjoyment your patrons experience. If you also enjoy their performance, that is a bonus. I cannot think of a single occupation that does not have a minus element, and KJs must accept the good with the bad, just like everybody else. Hearing the same song sung more than several times in one evening must be a bore, but hey, that's life.

Regarding "old farts" not listening to new music, surely that's their choice. There are some, me among them, who cannot abide a lot of recent chart music. My radio is permanently tuned to Classic FM, and they don't play much pop (well actually they don't play any, it's a classical music station). I am, however, always ready to listen to a new song. The only qualifications required for me to like a song is that it is melodic and has reasonable lyrics. I enjoy listening to, and performing, all sorts, from slow sexy blues right the way through to raunchy rock and roll. Please do not make the mistake of assuming that anyone over thirty is not worth a listen. You never know, you might hear a song you like. In turn I have found many that I like from our visits to karaoke, some have even been added to my repertoire!

KJs: Enjoy presenting your shows if you can. If you find the public more annoying than you are enjoying, find another profession.

Patrons: You have gone to karaoke to have a fun evening. Try not to have your fun at the expense of others.

In short treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself.


Best wishes

[George]

Well put, Lauraine, and glad to hear from you again. I'm with you regarding style. If anyone were to ask me what my favorite is I'd have to say "music", that's it "music", and anything from Blondie to Bach will do just fine.

Take care,

George

[SteveWalker]

DennisH,
You, I and everyone reads these posts from a different angel. Perhaps you think that your "angle" is more valid than the other folks here. Just remember that a forum is very boring when everyone is saying exactly the same thing (as you prefer to say "from a same angle").


Lauraine Graham says:

1. Thank God for the regulars.

You're right but they're several kinds of regulars and each one has a different ANGLE (please excuse me as I'm trying to be tactful). First of course is your karaoke regulars, next the BAR's regulars, the sports loving regulars on pool and darts, and I'm sure you can complete the list. On any particular night you will certainly have some wild combination of this going on while you do a karaoke show. It's NOT always understood which regulars are the important ones. Do you know?

2. Karaoke shows are patronized by amateurs.

I prefer to do private parties but sometimes I do bars. You would swear that the singers that come to my bar shows are professionals and many of them were. Most singers pro or amateur tend to do the same set of songs most of the time. I'm sure they're aware of "repertoire balance" but do you really think they could give a ****? I don't play with the rotation to please the "other regulars" ether because the sign outside says KARAOKE TONIGHT. I want my "karaoke regulars" to feel welcome and free to sing what they want to sing. If you want to lose your regulars just play games with the rotation. Nothing pisses them off more than that and I feel the same way when I attend a karaoke show.


3. Polite, helpful, supportive, but firm. It is not the KJ’s place to police a venue

Exactly right. Bars don't pay enough anyway so why should I do their job? As you pointed out, being a touchy feely KJ can be treacherous!

The important factor is the enjoyment your patrons experience. If you also enjoy their performance, that is a bonus. Regarding "old farts" not listening to new music, surely that's their choice.

Exactly right. And exactly what I’ve been saying in this thread while employing a "different angle". :g

KJs: Enjoy presenting your shows if you can.

I hate karaoke. I just like to sing and showoff! :g :g :g
I currently setting a 24 track studio and will be doing the real thing again! :c


Thanks for all the sweet comments Lauraine Graham.
Steve

**** Remember it's ONLY karaoke! ****

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

To George
So kind, as always, thanks. By the way, an earlier comment of yours has only just sunk in. I got the impression you were feeling a little pressured about people appearing to jump on you all time, so to speak. It does look that sometimes, I agree. My dear, gallant Sir George, do you not know why this sometimes happens? I believe it is because you are unfraid to speak your mind, you fear no-one. You gallop in on your noble steed to the rescue of lesser beings and stand your ground bravely, sometimes in face of seemly awesome odds. They are jealous, simply put. But you carry on being you because, in spite of appearances, you are much admired.

To Steve
Thanks for your comments, they are much appreciated. I agree completely about there being two types of regulars and I believe that Management's view of the most important group will be his bar regulars. Afterall, they are the ones in there every night putting money into the coffers. The karaoke night will bring in those extra people who would not normally be there. They are important too, but mainly to the success of the evening and will decide whether or not it is to be continued.

I have observed the regularly high standard of singers at karaoke these days, and I do believe that many are resting or retired professionals. However, I have always believed, and experience bourne me out, that there is a LOT of real talent out there. They will never be given the chance to achieve stardom, despite their talent, because their face, or more acurately their body is the wrong size or shape. And even the ones who have the right image may not have what it takes to perform consistantly well. The public's expectations are so very high these days, and it costs a FORTUNE to promote a new artist; management agencies these days will only spend the money on a virtual sure thing.

One last thing. You said you are starting up a studio of your own soon. Since reading all the stuff on these forums I got the feeling that you would would be happier dealing with professionals. Well good luck to you, I say, I hope you are successful and wish you well.

Best wishes to all

[SteveWalker]

Lauraine,

Thanks for the kind words. You and George are the smartest. :g

I got an idea for you all "to have a chance to achieve stardom". Let's all record ourselves and post the MP3 on this site for review. You can record to a stereo tape recorder at a karaoke show or use Hoster on your PC. So, what do you think Lauraine? It won't "cost a FORTUNE to promote" yourself on MTU, right?

Have a nice day!
Steve

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

Nice idea, Steve

The show-off in me says "yeah, I'll have a go"

The humanitarian in me says "Why inflict me on the general populous?"

Seriously though, I wouldn't mind having a go. If you are serious, let me know.

Best wishes

[George]

I got an idea.. Ask Dave's permission to go so far afield on his site.

George

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by George
I got an idea.. Ask Dave's permission to go so far afield on his site. George

May I nominate George to lead this venture? Well, George? :)

Steve

[George]

Steve,
It was your idea, not mine. You want it, You ask.

George:g

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

I know that a little controversy is salt on one's potatoes, but why are we rolling up our sleeves when we haven't even established if there is enough interest?

Perhaps the idea was a little premature of protocol, and it was kind of George to point it out, but sometimes an idea explodes out spontaneously. Perhaps we should ask Dave what he thinks and for his advice. If a lot of interest is shown from the public and the idea is impractical from Mnagement's point of view, there could be disappointment, bad feeling or worse.

Although it was unintentional Steve and I have forgotten our manners, and I am sorry. I apologise to George for upsetting him and to Dave & Co if we have alarmed them. :s

Peace, friends

[George]

Lauraine,
I guessed I missed something along the way. Didn't realize there was any controversy or I was coming across upset, just laconic. Nothing there to be upset about, simply told Steve "you want it you ask." Most certainly no apologies from you are in order.

I personally don't believe it will hunt with Dave anyway. I'm just speculating, but I'd venture a guess that unless he saw proof positive that none of the material sent in is outside of public domain(and since the 1976* copywrite law revisions, many old standards fell out of public domain back into THEIR clutches) he will not put MTU at risk as a file swapping center. Just purely my own opinion, and will wipe the egg off my face(again) if wrong.

I didn't express these thoughts initially, as I didn't want to appear as though I was trying to shoot the idea down, or sound like a "know it all". It very well may get off the ground, so Steve, ask the man what he thinks about it. If he consents, then as Lauraine pointed out see if there's sufficient interest to go ahead with it. That would be the time to post the idea as a separate thread to command more attention.

Take care,

George

*Prior to the revision of the U.S. Copyright Law in 1976, music copyrights were granted for a period of 18 years, and could be renewed for another 18 years, a total protected period of 36 years. Therefore, as of 1977, any songs copyrighted in 1938 or prior entered Public Domain. From 1938, you can extend those 36 years to songs that were copyrighted up until 1976.

At that point, the change in the Copyright Law offered protection for the lifetime of the author plus 75 years. If there were collaborators (and thus co-copyright owners) the protection applied for lifetime plus 75 years of the last surviving co-copyright owner.
http://www.hsga.org/newsarchive/pubdomain.html

[jim in ohio]

I think that KAPA, you know the people from Salem, Mass that were out of work for a few hundred years until Sound Choice decided to hire them, would have a field day with posting songs on one of the sites they really hate...

Jim

[SteveWalker]

George and Lauraine,

Looks like the copyright laws may ruin our "chance to achieve stardom". That's too bad. :f Well if anyone else has a workaround to the problem please chime in.

Thanks guys,
Steve

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

Thanks for the info on the US copyright laws. This demonstrates the "impractical" nature of the objections I thought might be raised.

I'm glad I didn't offend you, George, that would be the last thing I would want, you or anyone else, come to that.

Best wishes

[George]

You're more than welcome, Lauraine.

You know, reading those copywrite regs, and translating them into reality are two different animals. Our normal perception is that the laws exist for the protection of the artist, and the publisher that bore the expenses of the publication. With this in mind, I went to a website featuring our old and respected friend, Cole Porter.

Mr. Porter published "In The Still Of The Night" in 1938, and another timeless one, "Night And Day" in 1932. These were just two of probably 2-300 songs attributed to this genius, some dating back earlier.

Mr. Porter died in 1964. It seems almost inconceivable that, having been captured back by the opportunists, none of his music will become public domain again until 2039 !!! I'm sure this must be a comfort to Mr.Porter, wherever he is.

Tell ya what I figure happened. The industry saw a resurgence of these old standards hitting the charts and bringing in big bucks that they had no control over, and what we're looking at today is the result.

Along the lines of controlling the bucks, I'm going to beat an old drum again. Everbody who has continued to buy Sound Choice is contributing to Media Clog; supporting S.C's position, and it's ultimate effect on the entire Karaoke industry. It may not be too late, but the only way to stop it is to boycott their products. I said it before and I'll say it again. Bite the bullet now and do without their product, or eat the whole cannon later on. It is coming to pass. I haven't purchased a S.C. disc since this first surfaced, and will continue to do without, best arrangements or not. The KJ's are in a position to hit them hard, resolve the issue quickly, and get the public's support doing it, but just don't seem to grasp that. !!!

Interesting to note that SC named their KJ packages "Brick" and "Foundation", both elements needed to build an empire. KJ's are the guys they get their big bucks from, and if those big bucks were withheld, would get their attention.

You phrased it well, Jim In Ohio, old buddy. It's one great big witch hunt.

Take care,

George

[swany]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DennisH
[B]I've been running a karaoke show for several years, and since the beginning... my show has had a standard set of "regulars" who come to almost every show. It's usually a group of about 7 to 10 people, and while each and every one of them are nice people... I am having some problems.
3. I am constantly having to listen to many members of the crowd complain about these "regulars", as they are much older than anyone else in the bar, and their music reflects that. For instance, I'll have 5 or 6 upbeat modern songs that get the whole bar moving, and then a regular will get up and sing "Crazy" by Patsy Cline... I realize that this is the nature of Karaoke, but I'm tired of listening to the crowds complaints!
You will notice I edited some of your qoute. One of the things I have noticed is some regulars do get better if you encourage them, another thing is when they come in it is usually early, at this stage you know their voice and if possible give them a little karaoke ruelette and pick out a song that "you thought they would sound good singing" pour on some effects and see if you can get them out of their rut. You never know they may branch out if you do this early when the rotation is small. You may also pick one of the modern duets and have them get up and sing with you. Some you'll never get out of yesteryear, but make comments like "Crazy by Patsy insert their name one of my favorites." You as a host can get more crowd encouragement, and you never know, just remember the place you work at have that same person as a regular. We have a old gal that used to sing nothing but old country, when she first started and wouldn't move beyond it, her voice is terrible but she is happy go lucky non drinker (she does have pop) For about the last year she has switched from the old country to old pop, and on occasion she sings Bitch and it brings hoots hollars and cheers. Get them to change and fit the crowd take some older standards a few sing and make it their venue. Just some thought. Swany

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

"pick out a song "you thought they sound good singing", pour on some effects, and see if you can get them out of their rut"

As it happens I am an "old gal", and I can tell you that if a presenter decided to "play karaoke roulette" with me I would be MOST displeased and would probably walk out.

The average patron works hard all week and the karaoke is likely to be his or her one night out, and you decide that the choice of song is unsuitable. Most patrons are not ex-professionals, as I am, and their limited experience would not be able to handle being played with, and recognition of this fact should not be lost in the presenter's ego! I understand that as the presenter of your show you want to shape the show, but with all due respect who do you think you are?

[George]

Well said, Lauraine.

He thinks the regulars are the ones in a rut, but it looks like it's just the opposite. It's him and the "crowd" that are stuck hearing just what they want to hear and have little real appreciation for music in the broad sense. Sounds like they do just what they can't toletate in others, same old, same old, same old, so long as it's the same old they want to hear.

If anyone tried to change what I wanted to sing, I'd hand him the mike and tell him to sing it himself, head for the door and take as many of the regulars with me as I could. They've probably developed a relationship and would band together.

Wonder how the owner of the establishment would like that.

George

[swany]

Lauraine


As it happens I am an "old gal", and I can tell you that if a presenter decided to "play karaoke roulette" with me I would be MOST displeased and would probably walk out.

George.
He thinks the regulars are the ones in a rut, but it looks like it's just the opposite. It's him and the "crowd" that are

The "rut" I refer to is when a lot of people start out they will be
into a sorrow thing like a recent breakup and are just getting back to the single life, my old gal is a real sweet lady that got dumped after 32 yrs of marriage. She is now a crowd pleaser, when she first started all she sang was all of the old lost love songs, cheating songs. I started going to the place she went most often and would ask her to do duets with me, and she did. She has a new boyfriend and is singing some of the most modern stuff we have and at 60+ she is a happy camper.

First, thing is I was responding to the starter of the thread, second when in a early show and you have regulars that you know and you do a karaoke ruelette with them most are not offended if you know them, and give them the opportunity to turn it down. The crowd I hang with don't have a problem with the regulars anyway. Some get a little tippy and exceed the fun limit from time to time and want to sing more when the rotation gets larger, Lauraine if you knew me you would like me, George you would too, I was trying to make a suggestion to the presenter with a problem that he wanted to address and was asking for help in this forum. I do hope I have not offended anyone by the suggestions I made. I am the old guy in my crowd anyway at 58 I don't really do a lot of new songs, but I have my moments with the likes of the Big Bopper and Chantilly Lace, which I try get people to remember the oldies as well as the new stuff. My lady is into the new stuff and we get a good mix. I make a lot of mistakes but always try to learn from them. Take care and thanks for the replies. Swany

[Garry A. Leslie]

Hello All,
Don't know how I missed this thread originally, but thanks to all involved, I've sat at the computer and had a really good belly laugh, I'm even still smirking writing this reply at the things said.
I have been singing karaoke for about 15 years, when I was a kid we had movies with a dancing ball to sing-a-long with such classics as "Two lovely Black Eyes"
I am 68 so a considerably old OLD FART.
Last night I sang a cracking up tempo SGB version of Sinatra's
"Fly Me To the Moon",
"I Love this Bar" Toby Keith's recent Country No1.
Dierk Bentley's amusing "What Was I Thinking"
Matt Monro's beautiful ballad "Portrait of My Love"
and Travis Tritt's version of T-RO-U-B-L-E
We are all used to hearing the same people trotting out the exact same songs, week in, week out.
We are all aware of the "Young Ones" who don't know anything if it wasn't written last week and yes there are old farts who are somehow lost in 1963.
Lauraine and George have it right a good song has a melody and
strong, clever lyrics, the writers of the 20's and 30's were near genuis's when it came to writing rhyming, singable, memorable songs.
But there are still writers out there today, writing good tunes, which is one of the reasons I like country
Regards from across the pond
Garry

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

Nice reply Garry

Don't get me wrong, people. Whilst I totally agree with Garry, George and others in that there are a LOT of very good songs written before the sixties but don't let us lose sight of the brilliant songs of today. Of course there is a load of cr** out at the moment, but there was an awful lot written much earlier on than today.

I have written lyrics to songs but I never could manage more than a couple of bars of a tune. I bow very low (well as low as my bad knee will allow) to those talented enough to write a good tune. I will listen to anything, and decide whether I like it or not onit's own merits. However, just because I don't like it doesn't make it rubbish, well that's the theory anyway. More power to the composers (lyrical and musical) I say.

best wishes

[bubba q]

Keep it simple stupid. If they don't pay ,they don't play. Believe it or not they will understand. As to setting a mood, try using uptempo bumper music between singers, hopefully dance tunes of which you have karaoke versions. This has worked for me since 1988. Good luck