what WILL work??

[DragonAce]

what ide drives are guaranteed to work with Microstudio or CloneCD??..(or preferably both!!) (heh heh..don't go there..i can't get the software to run so i think i'll not run the risk with a writer too.. ;)...that and i need this puppy NOW!!)

apparently my Yamaha 2100EZ sux for doing CD+G's so it needs to be replaced ASAP.. i can't even get it to write at 1x and not start smoking.."danger..danger" "error..error"

how are the newer 40x Plextors??
or can you recommend some models i should look at??
i just need something that will FOR SURE work..
imo the faster the better, i'm not into buying relics even tho from what i'm reading they seem to work a lot better than the newer stuff..(hmmmm...that seems weird..)

tia..DragonAce

[George]

I believe the only drives MTU will guarantee success with CDG are the ones they sell to be used with their own products. This is because they test and certify every burner they sell to work with MICROSTUDIO.

Regarding speed, where CDG is concerned, the faster the burning, the more glitches one can expect(words half shaded, random crud on the screen, etc. You see a lot of it in commercial cdg's). If you'll read through the forums you'll see slower speeds advocated numerous times, for that reason, but that's your call, depending on the results you expect.

Hope that answers your question.

[DragonAce]

thanx George..
all but one..brand name..
i know MTU sells them, but what brand are they certifying??
i've got a few "retailers" local to me that i'm sure would be happy to "play" with try this or try that, but i'd prefer to be able to walk in and say "k, gimme that plextor over there but this is what i need to do.."..

i hears you on the speed issue, and for cdg's it'll be slowed down, but for other types of burning it'll be 3 minute burns like what the Yamaha can do..(does that make sense??)

thanx again..DA

[George]

MTU markets the Plextor line. Go to the website under KARAOKE PRODUCTS, then CDG CD BURNERS, and you should be able to get a handle on it.

On the speed, I do the same thing, slower on CDG and wide open on plain vanilla audio. I do the same with discs, Mitsui for cdg's and Memorex for audio. Haven't been disappointed yet, and not in the coaster business.:)

Take care,


George

[admin]

DragonAce, if you purchase a drive elsewhere, please expect to get your support from them also.

We test the drives we sell and certify them to be CDG capable. We are not aware of anyone else doing this certification, or providing CDG knowledgeable support. If you don't mind taking drives back and forth to dealers in your area, then try what you are saying in our Forum here. However, if your time is valuable to you, buy from MTU and know the drive will work.

Keep in mind, our price includes our support if you need it. :w

[DragonAce]

Originally posted by admin
DragonAce, if you purchase a drive elsewhere, please expect to get your support from them also.
Keep in mind, our price includes our support if you need it. :w

Just to clarify things, as i'm not completely sure of what you're implying here..but regardless of what drive i'm purchasing is the software that i purchased not covered under the same "support" policy?
fine if it's a drive issue then ya, i kinda have to find my way thru it myself..but what if it's a software issue??
i don't see why i should expect support for something i purchased from someone else..tho for something that i did purchase from MTU, well that should kinda without saying..shouldn't it??

i'll have another look at what you have, tho what i have to take into consideration is price of burner+exchange rate+duty+shipping+having to take a day off work to make sure it's deliverable..etc etc etc..

now if ya could send it over the net like the software :g

peace guys, and thanx for the comments..

[jim in ohio]

I have had great success with the Plextor 1610 using both Micro Studio and Clone CD backing up audio, multi session audio, CD+G, and multi session CD+G.
Using Clone I also use a liteon DVD.
My Plex came from plex's web site.
:g :g

[DragonAce]

:w

thanx again Jim.. :c

[George]

It is my understanding, from previous MTU posts that the primary reason MTU tests all the burners they release is because of the failure rate they experience from any brand, Plextor included. This also would explain their reluctance to recommend a particular brand or model.
This means just because Jim's and my 16x10x40 Plextors perform well doesn't mean they all will. If I recall, I believe the failure to process CDG was something like 1 out of every 4 or 5 would fail. These numbers may or may not still hold true as it's been some time. What's the latest, ADMIN?

George

[tinman]

How is it tested and what makes a burner any different than the next model. One of my friends has been talking about this TDK burner. It says it does CDG burning. Does MTU certify their burner to do karaoke or certify the burner to work with its software. Does that make sense.. or should I just go away now (since I got what I want anyhow)

[jim in ohio]

According to the MTU site, they only list two supported TDK IDE burners, the VELO CD8X and the VELO CD12X if the site is up to date.:?

[George]

Unfortunately, there's more than one format used for Karaoke. I got into this with an Acer burner I bought that was advertised to support Karaoke. After over a month of "try this", "try that" from their support team I talked to their engineer who told me Acer supported VCD Karaoke format and never would support CDG. I asked if their advertising wasn't a bit misleading since most consumers thought in terms of CDG when talking Karaoke,and he said they were "Technically Correct" and had no liability.

You used the terms KARAOKE and CDG in one sentence to mean the same thing, as most of us do, but it's not quite that simple anymore.

I don't know how TDK is advertising, but your friend best make certain when they say their burner will do Karaoke, that they mean CDG, and not VCD or DVD.

MTU certifies their burners to work in the CDG mode, and it would seem logical, with their own software. I'd think that since they experience one out of every so many that fail with CDG they'd be hard pressed to certify any burner that they have not tested to perform, and with their own software. That's only reasonable, wouldn't you agree? When they list a "supported" burner I'd suppose that's based on Manufacturer's info, and if it fails to perform that's the luck of the draw, and the manufacturer's responsibility.

If I've taken an overly simplistic view of this I'm sure Admin will jump in and correct me.

Hope this helps.

George

[jim in ohio]

George, are you saying that just because MTU lists a burner as a supported burner that does not mean it will really be a supported burner???
If that's the case then why even put the list on their site?? Or why even have a list??

I can't find a smile that relates my feelings on this!!

Admin: Jim, Microstudio will work with a drive that WILL DO CDG correctly. The problem is that many drives that claim to do CDG, even those on our list, have individual drives that will NOT DO CDG. It is not under our control. If you are frustrated, how do you think we feel? :f

[George]

What I'm saying is exactly what they say in red print ahead of that list of burners. According to the manufacturers those burners are SUPPOSED to work in CDG format, and MOST probably will. There will be one out of every so many that won't, including Plextors, and MTU certainly can't be considered responsible if you get one that won't. Don't just read the listed burners, read the red, bold disclaimers also.

As to why even have the list, that will have to be addressed by MTU.I wouldn't be presumptious enough to speak for them.

If you want a burner guaranteed to work in CDG mode, then buy it from MTU, and buy their software also(it's the best around anyway). Read through the Microstudio posts and check out what former owners of other cdg software programs have to say.

Having been there and done that, the added price tag to get a burner that's been put on line and proven to work in CDG mode
was well the money.

George

[tinman]

My problem is in the fact that I have already purchased software and plextor burner.. I have to work at home and would like to install another plextor or whatever in that machine, and would like to save a little money instead of buying all the stuff again. I did already spend aprox 500 and thats not including all the stuff I didnt need.. (big boy toys) My concern here is what process is used to determine if they certify a burner? Also, if a shovel is a shovel and its brand x should they all not dig a hole...:w remembering I still have to do the labor....
Tinman

[George]

Did you purchase through MTU?

It is my understanding they put each burner into operation and make certain it will process CDG. The two I've purchased through them were both opened and re-sealed, and I've not had a minute's trouble.

I wish your shovel analogy were true, but unfortunately not so, especially where mechanics and electronics are involved.No difference with the guy with the $30,000.00 lemon sitting in the driveway and the neighbor across the street with the identical model car humming along just fine.

From MTU's standpoint I would imagine they'd love nothing better that to be able to rely on a burner's performance rather that having to spend a great deal of time testing them. Rarely do us consumers ever like to think that a problem may be in our hardware, but choose to blame software. I'd imagine that's why MTU takes the pains they do to make certain we have reliable hardware available to us.

Take care,

George

[SteveWalker]

I just bought a Sony CRX175A1/C1CD CD-RW 24X/10X/40X Internal burner for $59.00 - yes $59. Regular price is $89 with $30 rebate. It burns CDG just fine and it is on Golden Hawk's list of supported burners. If a burner works with Golden Hawk's CDRWIN program, then it should work with a karaoke player provided the player was designed correctly.

Steve

[George]

Sony 24x10x40x Internal CD-RW Drive List Price: Our Price: Units:
Item number: 178552 $199.99 $99.99 each
Mfgr number:
Manufacturer: Sony
Qty: In Stock


Sony 32x10x40x Internal CD-RW Drive List Price: Our Price: Units:
Item number: 274032 $169.99 $119.99 each
Mfgr number:
Manufacturer: Sony
Qty: In Stock


Steve, consider yourself fortunate to have gotten one of those specials. This is all they show on the Office Depot National website under Sony CDRW burners. Info was cut and pasted.

Can't help but wonder, if the guys accept your guidance and find and buy one on your recommendation will you assume the financial liability if it doesn't work and Office Depot won't replace it or take it back? Tha'ts not such an off the wall question either considering that DRAGON ACE started this thread wanting to know what drives were guaranteed to work with Microstudio. His question was answered, and in offering an aternative you should be willing to assume the same responsibility that MTU would with a drive purchased through them. MTU certifies theirs to work.

CDRWIN is also a nice little starter kit, but why waste the money when so many people(myself included) have and are upgrading to Microstudio? That's not just my opinion, it is being reflected in posts on these forums. Microstudio far outclasses CDRWIN, but then, by your own prior post, not owning any MTU products, you're really in no position to judge them .

[George]

Jim in Ohio,

Got thinking about you getting upset over the supported drives thing yesterday so just for kicks I went to Goldenhawk's(CDRWIN)
site a while ago.

This should really send you into a tizzy.
They claim to support over 900 drives to MTU's 55-60 or so, but when you go to their FAQ section they list around only 40-45 that they say will read/write CDG, but no mention of any guarantees that they will work.

I really think there is an industry mis-use of the term "supported".
It should read something like"the following drives are advertised by the manufacturers to read/write CDG format. We can not assume any responsibility if they do not"

Then in MTU's case they could go on to say "MTU will support and back the drives we sell as they are tested in our lab and we certify them to read/write CDG format." No one else could make that claim.

Stand tall MTU, you have every right to.:g

[bassn99]

Keep it up George !

Some people obviously don't realize what a pain it is to make a purchase, anticipate it coming in, and then it not work. It what worth saving a few bucks? Been there done that.
I did a lot of reading and investigation prior to making my purchase with MTU. After all the dust cleared, it was kind of obvious to me I was going to have to pay a little more for a CD burner. But HEY!, I knew it would work when I got it. No surprises and no dissapointments. You get what you pay for. MTU is offering an extra service (charging for it) of testing each unit they sell. I would much rather pay a little more.............

Jerry

[tinman]

I wish they took paypal payments. I got money sitting there I need to spend.. HOW ABOUT IT>>> say u willllll and I will buy another plextor... that has been burned in and tested....and ready for me... and yes the support has been wonderful.. I know what its like for someone to walk in with somthing they purchased somewhere else and say "can you show me how this works" or "its not working"... Ya buddy. I'd be glad to show you how it works just bend over and don't scream while I'm shoving it up ur ass.. Thanks MTU
Tinman

[George]

Hi Jerry,

Thank you thank you for a welcome ray of sunshine in an otherwise depressing situation. This thread started out with a person wanting MTU to tell him what drive to use with Microstudio
so's he could buy it somewhere else and then probably gripe at MTU if it didn't work, and probably, as most of us would, blame the software.Then entered another individual who think's it's ethical to go on to another man's website and recommend competitive products.

Anyway, thanks again. How's the Edirol /KHP coming along ?

take care,

George

[SteveWalker]

George,

I'm know I was fortunate to have gotten one of those Sony specials from Office Depot.

MTU is providing a service to their customer and they deserve to be be paid for that service. Customers who wish to be "do it your selfer's" can do their own research and learn on the job.

I only recommended the Sony because I know it works. I don't guarantee that all who read this, have the know how to install their software properly and know how to find the correct drivers and install them correctly. So please people do your own research before you spend your money but I can tell you I have learned many expensive lesson over the years and $59 is not an expensive lesson.

CDRWIN is excellent software and I'm not comparing it to MTU software when I say that. This comes from 7 years of me using the CDRWIN software. I believe you when you say that MTU has software that just as good but I only need one program of that type.

Steve

[MTUSUPPORT]

We have been told by some clients, that if you call and ask Goldenhawk were to get a drive that will support CD+G, they say to go to MTU. This should say something? We have had about 4 sales that I know of from clients who had called Goldenhawk.

[admin]

I believe our web site is clear on this point. We only certify Microstudio to do CDG duplications with our CD-Recorder drives. We can't certify anything for any other drives. Period. We use to do that, and we found WAY TOO MANY folks that bought even the same drive we were buying, testing (rejecting the failures) and shipping where having problems.

Thus, we cannot certify any drive to work with Microstudio except drives we sell. We KNOW Microstudio will work with our drives, so it is not a Microstudio software issue. It is a drive issue.

As to TDK, they are not a manufacturer of CDR drives. They remarket various manufacturer's drives, so you have no asolute knowledge what they are currently shipping, or might have been on a distributor's shelf for some time, etc. It is a gamble. :f

[plink1]

Very interesting reading. I just purchased both a Plextor 40/12/40U external drive and the MicroStudio, obviously to copy CDG's. I previously owned a Compaq desktop and it had a Sony RW drive (thank God) because I didn't have a clue when I ordered it that some Cd writers wouldn't do CDG. I lucked out when I found it on the list of supported drives of CDRWIN that I ordered.
Compared to CDRWIN (2 yrs ago), MicroStudio is a no-brainer to run.
Because my new setup is XP I had to email with Bryan Cox re an appropriate driver. Excellent response and support.
What I guess I am saying is this...you can buy your burner at some warehouse closeout or whatever, but when you buy it at MTU, with your software, you get the equipment and the service, including this forum that you wouldn't find at Office Max or whatever. And, buying both (software/hardware) at MTU, ensures there is no finger pointing. Either way, MTU has to make it write (pun intended).

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by plink1
Very interesting reading. I just purchased both a Plextor 40/12/40U external drive and the MicroStudio, obviously to copy CDG's. I previously owned a Compaq desktop and it had a Sony RW drive (thank God) because I didn't have a clue when I ordered it that some Cd writers wouldn't do CDG. I lucked out when I found it on the list of supported drives of CDRWIN that I ordered.
Compared to CDRWIN (2 yrs ago), MicroStudio is a no-brainer to .....................

plink1,

You were lucky as you say but Sony and Yamaha are heavily into the music industry and are interested in this type of technology. Yamaha seems to have it covered across the board (but there must be one model you can shoot down). CDRWIN is a good program but the user interface leaves alot to be desired. I thought by now they would have made it user friendly. I will be honest with my answers as I see it and if I'm wrong I will follow up corrections.

Steve

[George]

admin
Moderator

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
Posts: 1091
No, Yamaha drives are not supported
We sold Yamaha drives for years, but from their 8424 model on, we have had problems with their drives for Karaoke CDG work. Thus, we do not recommend them.



Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

I'd doubt the situation has changed that dramatically since ADMIN made this post in Jan.2002. Looks like one could shoot down most of the Yamahas.

George

[MTUSUPPORT]

George is correct again. The Yamaha drives don't work for the CD+G. Yamaha drives will show up as able to do CD+G. The problem is that when you read and write the disc, you will then end up with distorted graphics on your new copy. We tried to work with Yamaha for about a year, but without any help from them we had to find another drive that would work.

The next brands of drives that we found were the Hp and Sony drives. These were both made by Sony at the time. These drives had about a 50/50 chance it would work without the graphics breaking up. We then gave up on these drives because Sony went over to buying the drives from Sanyo at about the 16x, so some Sony drives are not actually made by Sony anymore. I think you just got a lucky one, or Sony has started making there drives again. We switched to Plextor after the 10x Sony drives and the Plextor drives have been working perfect since. Plextor doesn't seem to be planning on doing anything to there drives to not make them read the CD+G format. Also if you read some of the reviews and things, Plextor always ends up getting very high reviews.

[George]

Thanks Bryan.
Since there is a movement by some manufacturers towards preventing burners from copying CDG's I'd think it prudent for the owner of any drive that's copying commercial CDG's successfully to avoid going to the drive manufacturer's site and "upgrading" the firmware. They might wake up to a surprise. Just my thinking.

George

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by George
admin
Moderator

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
Posts: 1091
No, Yamaha drives are not supported
We sold Yamaha drives for years, but from their 8424 model on, we have had problems with their drives for Karaoke CDG work. Thus, we do not recommend them.
George

I've had my Yamaha CRW4260 for about 6 years and it works perfectly burning CDG's with the CDRWIN program. Golden Hawk's list of supported devices used to state that ALL YAMAHA burners work but now they list 30 models that work with their CDRWIN program. Many users have problems because they do not have the correct driver for their operating system. When it doesn't work they assume the problem is the burner when the problem is the driver.

Steve

[George]

Steve, you still just don't get it do you ?

MTU's contention based on EXPERIENCE is that where one drive of a model will work, another will not, and therefore it's a gamble to purchase a drive simply because someone else's works. Don't you think the people at MTU have intelligence enough to have downloaded necessary drivers to make their determinations, and even with the proper drivers installed had a failure rate with some brands? So great, you had one that works, but don't pass that on as carte blanc approval of a brand or model and lead others down the garden path by infering all they need is the correct drivers. It's not that simple.

How many of the burners Goldenhawk supports will they assume the responsibility of CERTIFYING to work even with their own software?

Also you edited the post I made to make it appear that was my statement. I had another line ot two following that which made it clear that it was a quote from a support post.

[jim in ohio]

The one thing I have found out the hard way is that the name on the burner is not who made the burner, and who made the first 5000 burners did not make the next 5000 burners with the same name and model number on them.

And lets face it, the guy trying to sell you that burner, answering all your questions at the computer store was working last week across the street asking if you wanted fries with that.

No one is going to sell you a burner, and exchange it if you can't backup CD+G's with it untill you get one that works, MTU will, but no one else.

Jim


Burn Burn Burn

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by George
Steve, you still just don't get it do you ?

MTU's contention based on EXPERIENCE is that where one drive of a model will work, another will not, and therefore it's a gamble to purchase a drive simply because someone else's works. Don't you think the people at MTU have intelligence enough to have downloaded necessary drivers to make their determinations, and even with the proper drivers installed had a failure rate with some brands? So great, you had one that works, but don't pass that on as carte blanc approval of a brand or model and lead others down the garden path by infering all they need is the correct drivers. It's not that simple.

I get it. MTU provides good customer support and some of your customers are better served from the experience of MTU tech support. Our individual success stories may not be replicated. I agree that it is best for those who care to work with the good people here at MTU.

Steve

[supercat]

I believe our web site is clear on this point. We only certify Microstudio to do CDG duplications with our CD-Recorder drives. We can't certify anything for any other drives. Period. We use to do that, and we found WAY TOO MANY folks that bought even the same drive we were buying, testing (rejecting the failures) and shipping where having problems.

I think I understand what you're saying, but you're not being clear. Let me see if I can say it better.

There are two issues when writing karaoke disks: (1) whether the drive can be commanded to create the proper pattern of pits and lands on the disk, and (2) whether it can create that pattern of pits and lands accurately enough that common CD+G players will be able to read it.

For various technical reasons, the CD+G format requires much greater precision in pit/land placement for reliable operation than do other formats (CD-audio, CD-data, etc.) In their quest to minimize cost, many manufacturers accept manufacturing variations which do not affect operation of other storage modes, but cause problems with CD+G disks.

Am I understanding those issues correctly? If so, feel free to borrow any of the text above into an FAQ since I think it might help make clear legitimate reasons for you to only certify your own drives.

Now for a question of my own: I've read about Yamaha's new CRW-F1 drive and am interested in its "Disk T@2" feature. The drive claims superior accuracy of pit/land placement in its "audio master" mode. Have you looked at all at such drives, or have you been overly soured by past experiences with Yamaha?

[email reply requested]

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by supercat
[I]............For various technical reasons, the CD+G format requires much greater precision in pit/land placement for reliable operation than do other formats..............Am I understanding those issues correctly? [email reply requested]

supercat,

The audio on a CDG can be played back on any normal CD player. All CD burners should work fine in recording the audio portion of a CDG same as a regular music CD. The problem has to do with the graphics content of the CDG since this is a special format.

The accuracy of the pits is not the issue. If this was the problem, it wouldn't work correctly for regular music cd's or anything else would it? The issue is compatiblitly with the graphics part of the formatting.

Steve

[supercat]

The accuracy of the pits is not the issue. If this was the problem, it wouldn't work correctly for regular music cd's or anything else would it? The issue is compatiblitly with the graphics part of the formatting.

Actually, the accuracy is a major issue. Audio CD's have a fairly generous amount of error-correcting code stored on the audio data, to allow players to correct any read errors that occur (and there may be a lot). Data CD's have even more. In addition, a an uncorrected misread on an audio disk will usually result in only a momentary slight audio disturbance, and a misread on a data CD can usually be corrected by trying to read the sector again.

Unfortunately, the CD+G subcode data is stored with little error-correcting code (and some players may not even use that). Further, while an audio misread may cause a glitch of no more than 1/75 second, a misread in the graphics subcode data will cause a glitch to appear on the screen that will remain there until something overwrites it.

[SteveWalker]

supercat,

What's you point?

MTU said: "We can't certify anything for any other drives".

What do you think they're talking about? Do you think they're certifying how to do R&D on CD burners? Do you think they want to certify a new standard for error detection and correction for CD burners to handle CDG graphics?

Of course not, they are trying to certify which manufacturers models "in existence" are compatible with their software to save their customer from having problems.

You're missing the point of this thread by confusing yourself with Yamaha's marketing hype. :g

You said: "a misread in the graphics subcode data will cause a glitch to appear on the screen".

I'm not having problems with glitches on the screen and audio dropouts. Are you supercat? If not, what IS you point?

Steve

[George]

Steve,

:g :g :g :g :g

George

[supercat]

//What do you think they're talking about? Do you think they're certifying how to do R&D on CD burners? Do you think they want to certify a new standard for error detection and correction for CD burners to handle CDG graphics?//

A number of people had been asking why MTU was only willing to certify individual drives (which then had to be bought from them at markup) rather than certifying operation with particular drive models. None of MTU's responses dealt with the reason that some drives of a particular model will work well for CD+G while others may not, even if they're built to the same specification. Unless a burner lays down tracks precisely enough that even a non-terribly-good reader can achieve a raw error rate of less than 1 bad bit in 10^5, there are going to be glitches if the disk is played back on a typical karaoke machine. Given that CD-audio and CD-data disks can accommodate much higher error rates without noticeable degredation, many CD burners aren't made to such a standard.

//You're missing the point of this thread by confusing yourself with Yamaha's marketing hype. //

Yamaha makes the specific claim that their drive writes disks with less jitter than other drives. Jitter is a quantifiable phenomenon, and it can contribute to read errors, especially when combined with dust, fingerprints, optical degredation, etc.

//You said: "a misread in the graphics subcode data will cause a glitch to appear on the screen". I'm not having problems with glitches on the screen and audio dropouts. Are you supercat? If not, what IS you point?//

I've not yet burned any of my own disks (don't yet have a suitable burner) but I've certainly had problems with graphic glitches using other disks.

[George]

Personally think the whole point is getting confused here. The issue was that MTU very CLEARLY states they will only certify the burners they sell to work in CDG format. That couldn't be stated any clearer. The reason for that statement is because no one drive, irregardless of the manufacturer's claims, can be depended upon to write cdg successfully, drive after drive. The technical reasons for this are beside the point. Those are the conditions in the marketplace, that's what counts, and that's what's being addressed by MTU.They have CLEARLY stated that others have purchased the same model drives they recommend, elsewhere, and have drives that were problematic. MTU bench tests every drive they sell for that reason, and why shouldn't they be compensated for doing so?

As for the techinical reasons why a particular drive will not work, that is a question that would be better put to the manufacturer of the drive. They are the ones who should be held accountable to explain their blunders, not MTU.

As stupid as I may be in these things, I can understand MTU's statement, so what's all the confusion for?

George

[jim in ohio]

I think it's cool, Mr Walker who does not own any MTU products gets shot out of the water by Supercat!! She makes him look like a teen age hack trying to come across the threads like some super hero trying to save the world from bad Karaoke backups.

GO SUPERCAT GO!!!!

[supercat]

While I'm hardly an expert on everything, I do understand something of the mechanics of how CD-audio, CD+G, and CD-data work and what some of the reliability limitations are. I do think the point needs to be made that a drive's ability to report that it wrote a disk successfully--even if the drive can read the disk back--does not imply that the disk will be readable by the half-worn-out karaoke machine used by the local KJ.

I think that MTU would do well to make this point very clear, especially if they describe somewhat how they do their testing (e.g. if they burn five full disks with each candidate drive, then play them back on the most beat-up karaoke machine they can find--one which has trouble even reading commercially-pressed disks, and reject any burner which causes any noticeable glitches on any of the 75-minute disks, they should say so. Of course, I suspect their testing is a little less rigorous than that, but it might be good for them to say what their test protocol is).

I just priced a Plextor 40x12x40 drive at $150 at Best Buy; if MTU is supplying the same drive, spending another $10+shipping for the assurance that it will handle CD+G may be worthwhile. It would be good to know exactly what testing that $10 is buying, though.

[George]

It should be very obvious that the $10.00 would be buying the certification that the drive if purchased through them will work with THEIR OWN software. That should be all they as a software vendor should be interested in, all most consumers are interested in, and that's exactly what they do.

George

[SteveWalker]

Hi supercat,

I'll say it again: It problem is NOT that the burner fails to lay down tracks precisely. It is NOT that. Otherwise, the burner would not work reliably for any use. Got it? Don't forget that you do not have a burner that works - so everything you've been saying is theory, right? :g

I've been using a Yamaha burner for the past 7 years and they are still one of the best you can buy. I know that a couple of their models failed to work with CDG so you need to verify this based on the model number.

I highly recommend the Yamaha but verify the model. Now a days you have a many models that work with CDG software.

Not all CDG software works with my Yamaha burner. MTU, Golden Hawk, PlayCDG CE, other ALL work fine. I tried other software that does not work so the software is the problem.

Steve

[MTUSUPPORT]

Steve,
Your CD-R drive is a very old Yamaha drive that did work correctly with the CD+G format. The new Yamaha drives after their 8824 model, will not do the Graphics correctly. Please don't say that they will because they won't work correctly for the CD+G format.

The old Yamaha 4260 that you have is a SCSI yamaha drive and it worked great for CD+G, but if you go and try to buy a new Yamaha, see what happens. The graphics will be all broken up very badly and you won't be happy with the results. So please don't recommend to clients that it will work. Because I have had quite a few unhappy clients come to me, saying that they read the Yamaha drives would work and bought one, and now they are mad that it won't work. I would rather you make sure that you always say your Yamaha 4260, I know you have added make sure to check the model on some of your posts, but this does confuse people.

It would just make my life a little easier. Expecially since these clients don't exactly know that you don't even own any of our software products, so that could be questionable also.

[SteveWalker]

Bryan Cox,

Thanks for the message. My Yamaha model is just fine but I certainly do not care about promoting Yamaha products.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone planning to use MTU software would be smart to use only the CD burners recommended by MTU.

Best Wishes,
Steve Walker

[danny_g]

Let me preface this by saying it worked for me- Does not mean it will work for others but I got my first USB writer and it works with all of my programs that deal with CDG- AN HP 8210e.
I tried copying with cdrwin and microstudio both worked perfectly. I also tried it with a demo version of another karaoke hosting software and it worked as well. I figured it might as they have the drive listed under supported drives.

[danny_g]

Originally posted by SteveWalker
I just bought a Sony CRX175A1/C1CD CD-RW 24X/10X/40X Internal burner for $59.00 - yes $59. Regular price is $89 with $30 rebate. It burns CDG just fine and it is on Golden Hawk's list of supported burners. If a burner works with Golden Hawk's CDRWIN program, then it should work with a karaoke player provided the player was designed correctly.

Steve

tested microstudio demo on that model- karaoke NO audio YES
is what came up in the detect drives from microstudio.
it's the reason I didn't buy the one that writes 32X at Staples for $55.00.
If it works for you great.

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by danny_g


tested microstudio demo on that model- karaoke NO audio YES


danny_g,

The AUDIO on a CDG is exactly the same as it is on any commercial music CD. You can play a CDG on any regular CD player or computer CD-ROM drive. Take any of your CDG's and try it on your car cd player or any CD player in your home and it will work like any other music CD. You need to do your own research and testing before making conclusions.

The problem is always with the CD burners ability to read the GRAPHICS on the CDG. If the graphics does not come up on the screen it may be due to the following:

1. CD-RW is incompatible
2. incorrect software driver on the PC / OS
3. the player software interface is incorrect

I've had CD burners and drivers work for one "player" and not another - many times. MTU demos work with all three of my CD burners: external Yamaha, Internal desktop Sonys, and removeable laptop Sony.

danny_g, you need to contact the professionals at MTU support to get your Sony CD burner properly installed.

Thanks,
Steve