Audio .cdg out of sync after splitting / re-joining

[EdS]

After splitting .bin karaoke files that I have made with KHPro, into .CDG + .Wav (I sometimes want to change the key of the song, etc.), the .cdg lyrics file is LAGGING the music upon re-joining. However, after splitting / re-joining commercial karaoke files, such as Sound Choice, there is no problem with the lyrics sync.

[ddouglass]

Why are you doing this when you can use Keyrite to do it without having to split it and it will keep the changed key music in sync with the lyrics?
It sounds like your program you are using to change the key is also changing the tempo.

[EdS]

Most of the time, I am changing the pitch ever so slightly, so I can play a piano along with the tracks and have them all in tune. I am using Adobe Audition and trust me - it DOESN'T change pitch an speed simultaneously anyway. I consider myself an expert with Adobe Audition, and the huge time disparities I am experiencing (3-4 seconds) could never be explained by any small aberration which might result from using Adobe Audition.

And, as I said, the commercial tracks don't behave this way. So ... would you folks please please look into the SongVerter program to see if it mis-interprets KHP's .CDG file info? I have spent a long time working on 300+ tracks to normalize them all to the same pitch reference (A=440) so it would be very disappointing to not be able to utilize the fruits of this extensive labor. I would be very grateful if you could help me out here.

[ddouglass]

The pitch shift you are using is non-standard and I doubt that there is anything MTU can do about it since there programs all use the same steps of shift for all their key changes.
Maybe the best way for you to do this is to make your pitch changes to the audio before you add the lyrics in KHPro. Then the combined file will be set correctly.
Other than that your best bet would be to submit a support ticket because I doubt anyone in the forums can offer you any help with it.

[EdS]

Pitch shift is not the issue here. And hind sight is always wonderful. The reason that I purchased this software was to help correct my problems that resulted from not being diligent in the first place.

I will submit this ticket you refer to, once I figure out how to do that. Thanks for trying to help, Ed.

[EdS]

Well, about two weeks ago I sent in a ticket, as you suggested, for help on this issue, and today, for the VERY FIRST time, I get this response:

[ Your ticket at MTU.com has been Closed and assigned ID: 16651-7330041325 ]

I NEVER got so much as a "good mornin' " from these people. That's not like the MTU I used to know. Not even a way to contact them, because it is from a "Do Not Reply" email address.

[ddouglass]

Is there a link on that page to view your ticket? If so go to it and you should be able to add another email to it. If not submit another ticket and give them as much detail as you can on what the problem is.
What are you using to play these songs for your performance?
If it is Hoster you can import one in the WAV+CDG format and see if it is sync at that point. Microstudio will work for this too. My guess is it won't be.

[EdS]

I give up. No link. They also think that the problem is for Hoster. I specifically said "Songverter" but true to form, I didn't get a copy of what I sent them and it's nowhere t be found. I don't think anybody really reads these. I think they just have a computer that reads them and sends back replies. I can't even search the ticket number to see if I made a mistake. The tickets seem to disappear into a big black hole.

[ddouglass]

Not sure why this is happening. It isn't like them and no a computer doesn't swallow up the tickets....I hope that isn't what is happening anyway.
I will call them in the morning and check on what happened. The only way I can't think whythey would have thought it was Hoster unless you didn't select Songverter on the list of products in the form. (Hoster would be the top one.)

[EdS]

I think I did select Songverter, but even if I didn't, doesn't this make the case for them not using a human being in the process? I KNOW I described it correctly in my request ticket. By the way, Dale, I really do appreciate your efforts to help me through all of this. I can get snarky sometimes but I only do so after my patience seems to be exhausted. I am going to be on the road with only limited email access for the next three days, but I will do my best to stay in touch. Thanks, again, Ed.

[EdS]

Has there been any response to this issue? I am back to having reasonable internet access again. Thanks, Ed.

[ddouglass]

Part of the problem was their Support person was out sick for 3 days, so he is behind on tickets. If he was taking phone calls all day then he would never get any of the tickets answered. They stopped doing any direct phone Support because of this. You can call and leave a message but it may take just as long that way to get help.

[EdS]

OK; I am not going to call, if they indeed are still working on it. I believe you said you were going to look into calling them or otherwise getting someone to tackle it. I can wait. Thanks, Ed.

[ddouglass]

I said I would get them to look into it. That doesn't mean anything can be done.:? I am really pretty sure there is nothing to be done because no one else is having this problem it is going to be very hard to isolate it.

[MTUSUPPORT]

We have never had any customer that has reported this problem. We will take a look at Songverter to see if we can reproduce it, without using the Adobe Program.

We are very sorry about you being upset, and we will take a deeper look into this.

I did answer your Ticketdated April 29th on May 1st, but you never responded back to me so it was closed weeks later.

[EdS]

Thanks for your reply. Please note: This problem can't be related to Hoster, because I don't even own it. The problem is in SONGVERTER. I mentioned this in my May 13 post in this thread.

[admin]

After splitting .bin karaoke files that I have made with KHPro, into .CDG + .Wav (I sometimes want to change the key of the song, etc.), the .cdg lyrics file is LAGGING the music upon re-joining. However, after splitting / re-joining commercial karaoke files, such as Sound Choice, there is no problem with the lyrics sync.

Eds, as MTUSUPPORT pointed out, we have never received a complaint to our remembrance that any song created with KHPro is non-standard CDG.

We first developed our Karaoke Pro software to work with our Microsound Digital Audio Workstation for one of the largest Karaoke Producers in the world. It was shipped July 30, 1999. After shipping that for years. We recoded the Karaoke Pro code to run by itself as Karaoke Home Producer (aka KHPro). This is a professional package.

I personally will create a song with the lyrics in sync to VOCALS in the music this weekend, export it as a BIN file, use Songverter to convert it to CDG+WAV, then convert it back to a BIN, and then play it to check the lyrics sync. I won't do any external processing as that is outside the scope of our tools.

I'll post back here Monday what I find.

We started working on Songverter 1.21 today, and this problem will be addressed.

[EdS]

Thanks for your timely response. I'll wait to hear from you.

[dclark]

Hi, Ed.

Here's what I just did:


Imported a new Karaoke track into a BIN file from a CD+G disc using Microstudio
Played the BIN file to ensure it was in sync (and it was)
Converted it to WAV+G using Songverter
Renamed the WAV & CDG files, to ensure the original wouldn't get overwritten
Converted the WAV+G back to BIN using Songverter (new name)
Played the new BIN file, and it, too, was in sync.

I know I didn't follow your steps exactly, but this should prove that Songverter will split a proper BIN file into WAV+G and then restore it back properly.

Next, I will try inserting KHPro into the mix and report my findings back here. Don't touch that dial!

[EdS]

OK; we are, so far, on the same page. You will note my first posting that commercial files present no problems to me. It's only the ones I make with KHPro. I am repeating my first post here:

"After splitting .bin karaoke files that I have made with KHPro, into .CDG + .Wav (I sometimes want to change the key of the song, etc.), the .cdg lyrics file is LAGGING the music upon re-joining. However, after splitting / re-joining commercial karaoke files, such as Sound Choice, there is no problem with the lyrics sync."

[dclark]

I like being on the same page. :) So, maybe it's not Songverter that is at fault here. Maybe it's KHPro. Or maybe it's the key-changing software that you are using. Have you analyzed the original vs the key-changed WAV files?

Today, I will create a perfectly-sync'ed BIN file using KHPro. I will then split it into WAV+G and rejoin it back into another BIN file. I will post my findings here.

[EdS]

I don't think it's the key changing program at all. Immediately after splitting, even prior to any other steps, I can't rejoin them in sync.

[dclark]

I don't think it's the key changing program at all. Immediately after splitting, even prior to any other steps, I can't rejoin them in sync.Ok. That takes the key-changer out of the equation. :r Thanks! I'll let you know what I find. :c

[dclark]

Ed,

I just built a BIN file using KHPro™ 4.11. I split it with an unreleased version of Songverter™ (1.21 Beta), and then rejoined it using the same Songverter. I played both BIN files using Microstudio™ 4.20, and they both played in sync.

I'm at a loss as to what to tell you. Since you split and immediately join your BIN file and still experience the sync problem, it obviously can't be your Adobe® Audition®. I was thinking that Audition might have an option to "remove leading silence" in an audio stream.

I've contacted admin, and he plans to e-mail you a link to this Beta version of Songverter. Try this and see if your results are different. If so, then MTU "inadvertantly" fixed this problem. :s

[admin]

edS, I emailed you a link to get Songverter 1.21 Beta 2.

Please look for it and try it in place of the release version of Songverter you have been using.

[EdS]

I have just returned to the States. My Son has downloaded and installed the Beta for me, but I haven't yet tested it. I will get to it tonite, when I return to my home studio. Thanks for the support, Ed.

[EdS]

I am sorry that I couldn't get to this on the weekend (graduation parties, etc.), and now I am out of town for another week. I will get to it as soon as I can and share findings here. The fact that another user (dclark) claims that he had success using the new Beta is quite encouraging.

[admin]

I am sorry that I couldn't get to this on the weekend (graduation parties, etc.), and now I am out of town for another week. I will get to it as soon as I can and share findings here. The fact that another user (dclark) claims that he had success using the new Beta is quite encouraging.

FOR THE RECORD for anyone else reviewing this Thread.........
MTUSUPPORT did answer your Support Ticket 1 DAY later, but you haven't followed our recommendations to get support by adding @mtu.com to your APPROVED email list. You didn't get our emailed answer. In this public Forum thread, you continued to point the finger that we failed to support you even when we did. We have a published phone number. If you had called it, you could have got another form of our support.

We answerd this unique problem never seen before. MTUSUPPORT, Dclark and Admin all have been responding to you. Dclark is not a user, he is an MTU staff programmer. As President, I asked him to qualify and dig into your problem. He did and we can't re-create your problem. I personally sent you an email to a special download link we created for you to get a copy of the beta version to test. I also called and left a message that I had sent it so you would look for it.

I came to this Thread this morning looking for your answer. Instead, you are going out of town. It is clear you are a very busy person... and so are we.

As President, I personally held up the release of Songverter 1.21 to see if we solved your problem. You have had 10 days to test it.

Next time you want help... we will again help you because that is who we are and how we treat our customers.

I'm sorry we couldn't find out if we solved your problem or not. There is nothing else we could have done to support you.

We are releasing Songverter 1.21.

Hope you have a great trip. :)

[EdS]

I am sorry that this situation has turned hostile from MTU's standpoint. I did receive your initial reply, but as I stated in my May 13th post, you continuedly treated my situation as a HOSTER problem, rather than a Songverter problem. If anyone had actually read my ticket it would have been quite clear. How do you justify your handling of my request, when your only two emails were:
1.) Assigning a ticket number to a HOSTER problem; and 2.) closing the ticket two weeks later? ABSOLUTELY no responses in between those two actions on your part? So, you dump 100% of the blame on me? I have been a customer of yours for MANY years, and, while probably not your biggest, I don't buy from anyone else.

Also, I have previously been praised by YOU on Sept. 9, 2008 for posting my findings clarifying that MTU was NOT at fault in a mysterious KHPro problem I had last year. I am not a trouble-maker; rather, an MTU enthusiast, having recommended MTU to many others. I think you should DELETE your last post, along with this one, and let's keep working together in the future. Thanks, and SORRY, Ed.

[ddouglass]

Ed, I believe his reference to communicating with you was through this thread and the email with the link for the beta and not necessarily through the ticket. They were holding up the release of 1.21 for you to test and see if it fixed your sync problem.