Why have this Forum?

[admin]

Over the years, we have head some incredible stories from both singers and host that will improve everyone's abilities.

This Forum is for those of you who wish to post your wisdom for the benefit of all of us.

If you disagree with someone stating their "wisdom", be very careful and only add constructive statements to their post.

[Buddy Gilmore]

Thoughts for the host:
1. You set the tone for show! Spend some time assessing the crowd before your first song. If your audience is 100 drunk bikers don't open with Barry Manilow.
2. Dead Time is Bad Time. Keep it moving.
3. Don't play favorites. Probably the number one cause of bad juju at a show is jumping the order.
4. A dirty disc can be a showstopper. Check each disc before you load it; clean it if necessary.
5. Do an adequate sound check, especially if you are adding effects (reverb).
6. If you broke a mike cord on Monday night, don't assume it healed itself by Tuesday night.
7. 90% of your singers will perform ballads. The other 10% of the performing will be done by the host. Get comfortable with faster material.
8. Let the audience know when "Last Call" for Karaoke slips occurs.


Thoughts for the singers:
1. You don't always need to sound like the original. Take a song and make it yours.
2. Double check your song index number before you give it to the host.
3. Don't twirl the microphone.
4. Keep your lips off the microphone; you don't know where it's been (i.e., look at everyone in the lineup previous to you!)
5. Leave your drinks and smokes at the table.
6. Although you might like "Free Bird" or American Pie" leave these epics for the slow nights.
7. Try some eye contact with the audience. If that scares you too much, just glance up towards the back of the room.
8. If you are new at Karaoke, consider a duet with the host.
9. If you use products such as MicroStudio to build your own discs, try the 3.5 inch CD-Roms. They work great, and they fit in your pocket!

[srw2001]

Buddy, right-on for #3 under "Hosts". I've boycotted Karaoke shows where the host plays favorites and/or bumps people out of the rotation and in to the "black-hole". There is nothing worse that can ruin a fun evening than this practice - Shame on them!

For you Singers....if Karaoke is your hobby, think about investing in an inexpensive Karaoke cd-g player, a set of headphones and practice, practice, practice. There is nothing more satisfying than nailing a song in a live performance. And don't forget to compliment your fellow singers and try to keep your songs at 4 minutes or less.

Steve.

Admin note: Excellent points! Just wanted to point out that the reason we added the Play tab in Microstudio ($39.95) is so you can practice at home, then go and perform. Hosts first though we were after their shows, until they realized the clients now come in practiced, practiced, practiced up. :c

[danny_g]

I have been hositing shows since 1993 and attending other shows since 1989. I have a policy of being as fair as I can and taking songs as I get them but if I get a new singer and have already started the second rotation I will bump the new singer up to next. Otherwise I run the show in order of who put their songs in first. I keep the songs that are coming up with me so no one can insert a song into the rotation without me knowing about it. If they want to give me a song and I'm otherwise busy they can put it on their stack that I leave at the machine of other songs they have given me. Just because You gave me ten songs does not mean you'll get to sing them all. It all depends on how many singers I get. One question I have for any other Pro hosts out there- How do you deal with a guy that basically harrasses every singer that gets up to sing from boooing the singer, questioning their selection of songs to even questioning what sex they like to take to bed with them? I personally would like to get the guiy kicked out of the bar as this situation happened to me this past weekend and it almost ended with a fight between him and a regular.

[srw2001]

danny_g

Your system is about as fair as it can get..great job. And if I were singing and got heckled with boo's, etc. I would not be a happy camper and would applaud any decision to remove disruptive and rude behaving people for the betterment of the majority that are out there to blow off some stress and have a good time!

[Buddy Gilmore]

I don't believe that hosts should be put in the position of dealing with the kind of *&$#$% the Danny refers to. This is an issue for house management. Management needs to understand that this heckler is driving off paying customers, and possibly, a fine host. Ask your manager to hold out both hands - put a nickel in one and a dollar in the other. Tell him that nickel represents the heckler. The dollar is you and your singers. Hopefully your economically savvy house manager can figure this one out.

By the way, one way I think that singers can help on this: a bit of bonding during the first few songs. Be attentive and applaude enthusiastically. Usually that can help wake up a lethargic crowd; they don't know why they are applauding, but they clap anyway. If you get the house on your side, the heckler becomes the outcast. Either he gets tired of the glares, or maybe this is the time a singer speaks to management.

[TERRY STALEY]

My wife and I own and operate a karaoke show in WEST VIRGINIA. Any of the clubs we work at will give the person one chance and if that does not work they are barred for 30 days. the owners here are very good about this type of support

CRYSTAL AND TERRY STALEY

[kking]

Reply to Danny G:
I have been hosting karaoke shows for the past 5 years and have been working full time at this for the last year. A fair rotation is very important,just as you said. My wife and I keep a board that we pin request slips to so that if a singer comes up and asks where they are in the rotation we can show them and tell them how many songs until they are up. One of the problems that we all have is dealing with drunks and hecklers or drunk hecklers. I don't ever get confrontational with either. I have found that I can usually reason with them if I don't get mad. I have gone out in the audience many times and sat with hecklers and calmly told them "Hey man, don't do that, you know you wouldn't like that done to you." Believe it or not, this usually works, especially if that person is singing that night. One thing I have resorted to if that person is not a singer is to call him up to sing. Again, this must be done with a smile on your face and in a good-natured manner. Such as"Hey, someone turned in a slip for old Joe. Come on up and show us how it's done Joe." Sometimes the person will come up and sing, which usually will make him part of the group. Most times though, he will leave or be quiet.
Another thing that works for me is when I first hear signs of heckling, I will get on the mic and say "Hey guys , be kind, it's your turn next. Didn't mean to write a book,but I know what a problem this can be. Thanks to admin. for adding this forum.I think it will be great to have other KJ's and singers to communicate with.

[danny_g]

Thanks guys, I'm sure I can make use of all of your suggestions. And thank Admion for addin this to your forums.

[George]

As a non-dj I'd still like to thank admin for this forum(to which I'll likely not have much reason to post to.) It never hurts to gain a perspective on the problems facing others. Will be a mostly silent participant.

Thanks again admin. It is interesting

George

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by danny_g
I have a policy of being as fair as I can and taking songs as I get them but if I get a new singer and have already started the second rotation I will bump the new singer up to next. Otherwise I run the show in order of who put their songs in first. I keep the songs that are coming up with me so no one can insert a song into the rotation without me knowing about it.

I think you said that a rotation means that each person sings once per round. If a person has 200 slips turned in they can choose which slip to use in the next rotation. I think the host can keep everyone in rotation without requiring a new slip each time. Many hosts will automatically put you at the end of the rotation once they see you arrive. I think it's best to put new singers at the end of the rotation because the people know who they already follow in the rotation. For example, if you host a show that lasts 3 hours and have 4 hours of slips, you wouldn't put a new singer up next would you?

[Papa Ray]

As stated a few times here, rotaton is very important. Every singer has to feel like they are treated well.

I've been doing shows for about 4 years now. I use a large white board. They are not expensive, so I leave them at my gigs. Each singer puts their name on the board, and the number of the song they want to sing. When they sing their song, I erase the number, but not the name. Every one can see at a glance where I am on the list, and know when their turn is... this leaves time for going outside for a smoke or what ever. I'm not suspect to playing favorites. I sing the first song at the top of the list as a marker. If someone doesn't get a new song number on the board by the time their next turn comes, I skip them... they wait till the next round. I've had many people tell me that they like this system.

I've tried a lot of systems, and this has been the best (for me) in keeping track of my singers... I also work alone, and without having to track individual pieces of paper, I have more time to work the audience.

Keep having fun singing,

Wayne Ray - Tunes for your times Karaoke

[danny_g]

Originally posted by SteveWalker


I think you said that a rotation means that each person sings once per round. If a person has 200 slips turned in they can choose which slip to use in the next rotation. I think the host can keep everyone in rotation without requiring a new slip each time. Many hosts will automatically put you at the end of the rotation once they see you arrive. I think it's best to put new singers at the end of the rotation because the people know who they already follow in the rotation. For example, if you host a show that lasts 3 hours and have 4 hours of slips, you wouldn't put a new singer up next would you?

I have been to shows where I came in about two hours into the show because a) I got out of work late or b) I didn't have my own set of wheels so I depended on a buddy of mine who always goes late. I know as a singer that I am not willing to wait a two hour rotation to sing so to be fair to those who may have legitimate excuses for being late handing in slips and to keep them coming back I give priority to new singers over others who have already sung at least two songs. And I know other KJ's in my area that does the same thing. I want to give everyone a chance to become a regular no matter when them enter the rotation. I don't start putting new singers up next until I have already started a new rotation. Until then I add their slips to the back of my rotation. The only place I have ever run into having a ratio of too many slips for too little time has been a non profit Private show I do every month for a local Social club. I barely have enough time to get everyone up once and have had to turn people away a number of times from that particular show. Other than that I have had a full 4 and a half hours to run shows and have never had less than 2 or three rotations. I belive it's pretty good as the places I have run shows at were not designed to hold a crowd big enough to carry the night and then some.

[SteveWalker]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Papa Ray
As stated a few times here, rotaton is very important. Every singer has to feel like they are treated well.

I like your white board system and plan to try it out. Thanks.

[SteveWalker]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by danny_g
[B]

I would agree with you to put a new singer up sooner if the rotation has completed at least one time as you said. This is the ususal situation that I have. When the rotation is not long, putting them at the end should be ok and will not disturb the previous order.

Thanks,
Steve

[danny_g]

have any of you ever have to take the mike away from a singer before? I had to do it for the first time last night. While performing a song "Stairway To Heaven" a singer decided to put the Mike down his pants. I decided to take the mike away and let him know he won't be singing at my show anymore. The Bartender decided that it also called for him to leave the premises as well. Glad I got a supportive staff behind the bar because when I asked whether or not I did the right thing they told me that they would have done the same.

[Cid_cat]

I've been at my bar long enough to have the same kind of support. The owner and the staff all know that everyone respects each other AND the equipment! When someone commits a "party foul", such as you've described, or any others we all know...like swinging the mic by the cord, we make public fun of them so as to humiliate them enough NOT to commit said foul again.

Luckily, everyone has learned VERY quickly. :g

Did you spray the mic globe with Lysol?

[Papa Ray]

Yes, I have taken mics from customers 3 times in the past 2 years. I am by nature a very friendly person. I work hard at making all my customers welcome... but all know that I will not tolerate any abuse of my equipment. I have even 86'ed one singer. Taking the mic from the guy who put it down his pants was just cause in my opinion. I also don't tolerate pounding on my mics, or swinging them around. If you loose a ill mannered drunk as a customer, you've done the establishment and the rest of the customers a service.

Take care, Papa Ray

[Papa Ray]

Steve,

Have you tried the white board yet?
When you do, announce "How it works" to the group. If you see someone trying to put their name up twice, explain it to them. Once you, and your customers, get used to it, I think you'll like it. I copied the system from another KJ. When I was a singer, I liked his system best, and most of the customers seemed to like it. It also means you don't have bunches of slips of paper all over, and people don't keep asking when their turn is!

When I'm encouraging new singers, I will put their name up, and ask them for a song... I'll look it up and put the number up for them the until they feel more confident. (earns me tips too!)

Keep singing,
Papa Ray

[SteveWalker]

Papa Ray,

I've done only two shows using the white board so far. I noticed that most people have not seen this done before. I think they would rather use slips because they don't have to go back and forth to the whiteboard to put a new number. So I tell them to bring the number the next time they're called up to the stage. When they get to the stage they can't remember it or bring it to me on a napkin. People are busy with their friends and having drinks and they don't want to get the exercise. If I were in the audience I would rather use slips too. So I'm considering using slips again or could put the name list up on the white board to show the rotation and provide slips as is normally done.

[danny_g]

Steve and papa ray

I know a show host that uses slips for the singers to bring up and a clipboard to keep the rotation together so Steve's idea of combining the slips with the board may work out well.

[Papa Ray]

Steve,

I understand. At first, I had similar reaction, but eventually won over most my singers. Most people walk up to give you a slip, I just ask them to please put the number on the board. The trade off for them is knowing when their turn is. I admit that I do sometimes walk the audience and get numbers... I just never liked sorting out the slips.


Thanks for letting me know how it went,
Keep singing, and don't forget to have fun,

Papa Ray

[jumpmaster]

I have a female heckler...she's odd as she starts out having a great time and within an hour (a few drinks) she hates everybody. The bar owner was very poor at putting their foot down to anybody as they didn't want to loose any customers. I simply explained to them, that this behavior rubs off on other customers...it puts everyone in a bad mood and before long there would be several hecklers. I finally had to give the ultimatum...them or me! I still play there...with no hecklers.

Also, as far as new singers and putting them directly in the rotation I don't agree unless I have shamefully few singers which is rare. Before I became a KJ I loved the start of a show because it was a slow time for singers and I knew I could get a couple new tunes in before the crowd came in. I'd come in early and get one song, then another guy would come in an hour later and get in front of me? I was penalized for showing up early? NO, if a new singer hands me a slip, he or she can look at the person singing and KNOW they're going to be after that singers NEXT song!

DON'T PENALIZE SOMEONE FOR COMMING OUT EARLY! Sorry, a sore spot for me! :c

[jumpmaster]

I have two problems which I am sure most KJs have come up with a time or two. I have a solution for one I think, and need advice on the other.

First: what to do with the singer who puts in a dozen slips with their name and other peoples as a duet, then expects that song to be the OTHER persons next song...so they can sing over and over and over... I have explained to these people that they cannot just write someones name down, that the other person would have to submit it for it to be the other person's song... blah blah blah. Still, the slips slip in and I have to hear "hey, he and I were supposed to sing..." I think I'll try changing my slips to read "MY NAME: _____________" and have another line that says "Singing With Me: _________". What do you think?

Second, what do you do with the person who wants to jump up and just grab a mic and start singing with another singer who doesn't want them up there? For now, I don't turn their mic on and I call them to me and explain that they can't do that. I've seen KJs just go out to them and take the mic and tell them to sit down (usually bad as appears rude and could meet with resistance) and I've seen KJs just turn on the mic and let 'em go. What do you think? :?

[danny_g]

I have a rule that no one gets to sing with another unless they are invited. If they have a slip in the offender gets bumped to last place in the rotation their next go round and if they haven't sung yet then I count their jumping in as their turn in the present rotation. If they are invited then I don't penalize them at all.

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by jumpmaster
IAlso, as far as new singers and putting them directly in the rotation I don't agree unless I have shamefully few singers which is rare. Before I became a KJ I loved the start of a show because it was a slow time for singers and I knew I could get a couple new tunes in before the crowd came in. I'd come in early and get one song, then another guy would come in an hour later and get in front of me? I was penalized for showing up early? NO, if a new singer hands me a slip, he or she can look at the person singing and KNOW there going to be after that singers NEXT song!

DON'T PENALIZE SOMEONE FOR COMMING OUT EARLY! Sorry, a sore spot for me! :c

I agree with you as a general rule this is how I do it. However, what do you do when you have a long rotation at the end of the night and most people have sang several times and you know there's only an hour left and the new singer probably won't get up? To make it worse you know the singer or the singer is excellent and everybody wants to hear him or her. I'll let someone else weigh in on this.

[danny_g]

Originally posted by jumpmaster
Also, as far as new singers and putting them directly in the rotation I don't agree unless I have shamefully few singers which is rare. Before I became a KJ I loved the start of a show because it was a slow time for singers and I knew I could get a couple new tunes in before the crowd came in. I'd come in early and get one song, then another guy would come in an hour later and get in front of me? I was penalized for showing up early? NO, if a new singer hands me a slip, he or she can look at the person singing and KNOW they're going to be after that singers NEXT song!

DON'T PENALIZE SOMEONE FOR COMMING OUT EARLY! Sorry, a sore spot for me! :c

Not a good way to make a new comer an often comer in my book. A new person gets in that rotation no matter if I put them at the end of the rotation or enter them soon. I have since added them to the end of the rotation unless I am running out of time then they get the priority treatment since the others have had several turns already. How is it penalizing someone who has had 2 or 3 songs to bump their next song back a slip to allow someone who has not gotten to sing one song anyway. The way you are doing it means the new comer gets the impression that you don't give a flying care whether they return to your show or not. I have been asked to replace hosts that did this once due to that particular insulted person going to the owner and saying that them and their family who actually come on other nights that have no karaoke that they won't come back on the other nights unless they get rid of that show host that snubbed them. This individual happed to have about fifteen to twenty realtives that regualarly showed up and heavily drank almost every night of the week. there. So who got penalized there. By the way I no longer do that show as I moved out of that area.

[Cid_cat]

All of the issues discussed are valid and very touchy. The bottom line being, YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE ALL THE TIME.
Basically, I try to give the "hook up" to my regular singers when I can (ie last song of the night). Having done this favor on occasion, each understands the sorrow they feel when I grant the favor to someone else for the night. They always understand and they always return.
A few more points to be made: I ALWAYS make a public announcement when the rotation starts getting too full, around 30 singers. That announcement being, "NO MORE NEW SINGERS". With this repeated announcement, I've basically trained the patrons to get to the show early if you want to sing more than once or twice in a night. After you make the announcenment, it cuts the grief you're given from the customers about not being able to sing one more rotation. And finally, I have one other announcement that I make as the night winds down: "If you're singing right now, you will not sing again". This is just another public way of addressing the "Will I sing again" issue. The only negative to this: sometimes people sing their turn, then leave the club. At least they get home early, get some sleep and return the next night.
Hope this information helps someone.

[Papa Ray]

Greetings all.

I agree more with Jumpmaster. As a long time karaoke customer, and the last 3 years a KJ, I don't punish my regulars who have been sitting patiently for an hour or so, by slipping a newbee in front. I will sometimes "work" new people in if I can, but as a rule, the new person will wait a rotation...... And most new singers EXPECT to wait their turn. I admit this is the hardest issue facing KJ's. I will make an exception rarely....I have, on occasion, refused to break order, even at the request of the restaurant owner. It's my reputation for fair treatment at stake, not the restaurants! I don't even slip my good friends in out of order.

As an long time customer, fair rotation is my pet peeve. Two weeks ago, a customer declared that he must be next. I explained the rotation, and politely told him that he was 3 singers away. He came back not 2 minutes later… demanding that he should be next. I politely told him that I decide who’s next, and that his number was about to slip to the end of the line… he ask for his disk and left… I guess he showed me…. I look at it as one less jerk.

This one of only two things that bring out the A-hole in me. The other is mistreating my equipment.

Take care,

Papa Ray

[jumpmaster]

I do not put late comers in the rotation (even if the other singers have had 6 songs - even if they sing great - or whatever)...now I have been known to try to squeeze a regular if at all possible, but as a general rule, I don't bump anybody. For me, there is no question that it works best. Besides, why if someone has been partying with us all night, would I want to bump them, for some person who didn't care enough about us to come out earlier. Now the suggestion was that they worked late or whatever, and that is probably the person I would try to squeeze in.

My singers pay attention to the rotation! They see Fred sing and then I call them up to sing. An hour later I call Fred up, and guess what...when Fred is done...they're ready, and I for one don't blame them!

Late comers need to know the rules just as the regulars do. If singing that song is important, then come early. I knew a KJ who would immediately put late comers in, and guess what...like clock work, at closing time, the bar hoppers who hadn't spent a nickel at my gig, walk through the door and expected to sing -- and they did, and the regulars grumbled a great deal. I know he had way more of that than I ever have had, I think, because I don't encourage it and he did. Sorry, my obligation is to the people who support my gig and above all, those who had the sense to get there early enough to get their slips in on time!

Again, don't mean to stand on a soapbox, and I do try to squeeze occassionally for regulars or folks with good reasons for not being early, but my rule is MY rule and I do my best to stick to it.:c

[George]

Going to let my ignorance show through here. Been following these threads with great interest. Am quite surprised though to see no mention of using alphabetical rotation(Last name, First Name). It would seem on the surface that alphabetical rotation woule cure more problems than it would generate. For example, placing a singer in the rotation would be automatic eliminating the "selective bumping" making it completely impersonal. Also, if a singer wants to both solo and duet, the solo would be in his(or her) name, and the duet in the partner's name. Normally this would automatically space them out as the probability of them having identical last and first names is rather remote. After the initial rush, as they sign in they take their turn. If the rotation has passed their letter, they wait until it comes around again, if not they get up when it comes up. Bumping will still occur, but an understandable one that should take the decision making burden off the KJ's hands. The guy named Zycowski still won't like it, but may accept it easier than the way he's getting bumped now as he has been conditioned all his life to getting at the end of the line.

Obviously this was just skimming the surface. I'll let you guys ponder the details.

Dunno, just brainstorming. My hat's off to you guys for the work you do and the crud you put up with doing it. I wouldn't want the problem.

Take Care,

George

[Papa Ray]

Looks like rotation is the hottest subject.. with good reason. Rotation IS the single most likely point of conflict. I wish I had an answer, but I only have feeble attempts at controlling the whole table of people who try to hog the stage by putting everyone’s name up. This is perhaps my biggest problem.

Feeble attempt:
For the most part, singers are a single act, or a group, but not both.
Any person whose name is on my board must be the primary singer for the song they put up…. At that point, others may join if invited. (I don’t permit people to randomly “Help-out” the singer with out the request of the singer). I someone wants a duet or group song, they must use their normal turn, and then invite who they want to sing with.

I play it by ear, but when a table attempts to hog the stage I diplomatically invoke the primary singer concept… ‘to insure fairness to all singers’

I use the “primary singer” rule to control the many non singers who put their names up just to get another turn for their friend. If I suspect that a person has no real intention of singing (just stand there holding the mic while their friend sings) I politely ask them to sing louder, reminding them that it is THEIR song, and that the other singer(s) are back-up. I turn their mic up, and the others down as much as necessary… They will either get with the program and sing, or won’t put another number up
Customer reaction to my actions is mixed… everything from “party pooper” (from the abusive table usually) to “great job!”

I’m very open for better ideas, ‘cause I hate when this happens!

Take care,

Papa Ray

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by George
.................Am quite surprised though to see no mention of using alphabetical rotation(Last name, First Name). It would seem on the surface that alphabetical rotation woule cure more problems than it would generate. ............................
Obviously this was just skimming the surface. I'll let you guys ponder the details.

Dunno, just brainstorming. My hat's off to you guys for the work you do and the crud you put up with doing it. I wouldn't want the problem.

Take Care,

George

Hi George,

Wherever there is a waiting line, it's most often first come, first serve and that's what it ought to be. Most people pay attention to who they follow just like in many other activities going back to childhood. I say put the new people (including friends and relatives) to the end of the line and keep the order as it is. If the rotation is long, that means you must be doing something right. People who come late may not get to sing, so instead of karaoke bar hopping they'll come early the next time. KISS method!

Steve

[Flipeoke]

I like the idea of the whiteboard, and currently use a similar system (without the whiteboard) I absolutely despise slips of paper, for this reason: Busy night, large crowd of people handing you slips of paper at the same time...first thought is who handed the slip in first, secondly, a hour later some guy walks up, "Where is my song I handed the slip in an hour ago..." Now whether it was you who lost it in the shuffle, or it was him who never gave it to you in the first place, makes you look bad in someones eyes... So, most people know at my shows that they come up to me and tell me the song they want to sing...I keep a strict rotation based on when they gave me their first song, First person to give me a song for the night, is first right after me. On slower nights, as I see regulars walk in, I will add their name on the list, many of which I will choose a song for unless they tell me otherwise. I know the regulars well enough to pick a song from their repretoir (sp?) and they will often sing it, I will also have one ot two others picked our for them in case of the occasional "That song is too high/low/fast/slow/etc... for me to sing tonight." I have a few singers who will never pick out a sing all night, yet will end up singing 3 or 4 and have a good time, they just tell me put me up for whatever... Often at the end of the night they will come up to me and say "I haven't sang that song in years, I forgot about that one, Thanks." I use a chart-like page with three boxes across the page and 10 boxes down each singer gets a box starting with the first singer in the upper left, second in upper middle, forth in the second row left box...this is my rotation for the night...I will not deviate from this rotation, even at the owners request, or a request from President Jackson, President Grant or Ben Franklin himself (happened once and I almost took that one) People know this system and know who they follow in the rotation, they know so-and-so is singing, I better pick a song quick, I'm next. They also know the rotation does not change halfway through the night. The only exception I will make is if I call up Dave and someone yells out "He's in the bathroom" I will switch him with the next singer then come back to him next song...if he's not out by next song, I'll announce "Going once, twice, maybe later" and If I see him return or he comes up to me he'll be up on his next turn around. Only a couple of times have I taken the cordless mic into the bathroom looking for someone... and only on the real steady regulars, great as a joke. One thing that really blows people away is a good memory, or the appearance of one... Simple trick I've learned... I have a spot on the top of my chart for the date, all my sheets at the end of the night go into a folder arrainged by date... I can see the door as people walk in, a singer comes in who hasn't been there in about 6 months, I know he sang before, but I can't remember his name...open up my folder go back to 6 months ago and flip through a few pages, find his name and songs he's sung...when he walks up to me I say "Hey John, how's it goin, been awhile since you've been here, blah blah blah, whatcha singing tonight?" He says "Blah-blah-blah by so-and-so" then say "Oh, no Iron Maiden tonight?" This technique works really well with the ladies too. Or make a joke about the last time they were in and got rip-roaring drunk, "Hey John, let's try not to swing the mic around tonight and dance on the tables OK?" Make a joke about it in a way that he will know it's not accepted ettiquite, and you look more like a "concerned friend" instead of a pain in the a$$. Do this a few times and not only will they come back for the "personal touch" but you also actually do learn their name and songs. Most often they will come back again and again. It works well since I only host one show a week, my partner does the other one. If you do multiple shows have a folder for Bar A, one for Bar B etc... only occasionaly will you find "Hey that person came in to the other bar a few weeks ago..." and have to pull the other folder. Well, Thats about all I have for now...hope you can understand it all, I know it was a bit long...

Peace...

Mike

[Flipeoke]

Oh just remembered a few more tricks... I use a laptop for my catalog, helps when someone asks what songs do you have by So-and-So...just a few keystrokes and voilla, you tell them... I figured since the laptop is there, why not make more use of it...I take my regular music CDs and put them in in as MP3s, not only does this help in the begining of the night, you just have a playlist playing while setting up doing sound checks etc, but you keep a song cued up in case of emergency...so and so is in the bathroom etc..., play some filler music while you cue up your next singer...also a great way to add sound bytes to your show... We have a gong at the bar where I host, VERY occasionally (and never to a bad singer who is really trying) the bartender will gong a person, most often really drunk people that do nothing but shout into the mic...my favorite is the quote from Chris Tucker "You got knocked the f*** out man!" as soon as that gong, music is off, and that quote plays...very funny! Or play a few sound bytes from Austin Powers throughout the night or an Adam Sandler quote... gets people's attention, and a laugh... Occasionally on slower nights I will announce "Scare-e-oke" and ask for participants... mainly the regulars play, and I will randomly pick out a song for them to sing, sort of a mini contest with no real prizes or winners, but just breaks up the monotony. You know get them to sing the theme from Gilligans Island or Love Boat or something...which by the way is a great song to sing if there is a fight in a bar. Calms people down and most will start laughing as I sing "Love... exciting and new...come aboard..." mix it up a bit and have fun, most people know when you are having fun and it makes it fun for others as well...

Peace...

Mike

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by Flipeoke
I like the idea of the whiteboard, and currently use a similar system (without the whiteboard).................

Peace...

Mike

Hi Flipeoke,

That was a verrrry long sentence! I think I got your point. Now I tried the white board and everybody liked the fact they could see the rotation list but hated having to go up and write there song number.

So here's the compromise that I like very much. Have the singers put their name at the end of the list when they arrive. Tell all the singers to bring there slip or CD up ONLY when their name is called and it's time for them to sing.

Do it this way and you don't have to keep the slips organized, just take the slip from their hand (or take the CDG & ask which track), bring up the song and throw away the slip.

If you don't want to worry about a white board, just keep a written list of the singers yourself to keep you straight.

Best of Luck,
Steve

[danny_g]

That's Great if you're working for yourself an don't care if you have the next singer's discready to go. I now work part time for a company that insists that I am ready to play the next song before I call the singer up. I always worked that way with my twin tray anyway by loading the next singer's song while the present singer is singing. and while the whiteboard sounds nice I prefer the slip management system myself. If a slip is missing I'll usually state my fault and get the person up within the next 2 songs- depending if I've already loaded the next singer's song or not- If I have the next singer's disc in my hands I'll switch it with the person whose slip disappeared's sond and after he sings restart the rotation where I left off. Of course I will only do that if I actually remember them giving me the slip, otherwise I tell them write it down and hand it in.

[SteveWalker]

Hi danny_g,

I haven't seen to many KJ's who are quite that efficient as you describe yourself to be. That's great! I see some KJ's who put music on between songs and when you get to the stage they just keep playing the music. Is this fun or annoying? I think you should keep the singers moving throught the rotation and be serious - no room to cut up and have fun. Ha! Singers come to sing and we should be considerate of that fact and keep it moving. However, you are there to provide entertainment for everyone in the establishment so taking it too seriously is also boring!

Now if you hand me a slip or CDG when you come up, I can have it playing in 30 seconds. Is that fast enough? I really don't want to have a pile of CDG's that belong to the singers to be responsible for so please bring it up when you're called to sing. I'll never have a misunderstanding about where someones slip is, or heaven forbid where someone's CDG is.

Finally, when you get the Hoster program going on the PC, the singer could tell you the title and you can search for it and have it playing in 15 seconds. Is this fast enough?

Alot of things are changing and we can benefit from the change if we're willing to change with the times!

Steve

[Rickyokie]

I have to agree with danny. I have always used and love the slip method. For me it is the only way to go.

It is easier for me to use slips so I can keep the rotation clean and regularly toss out singers that leave the club without having to black out a list.
I also never use bumper music, I do and expect my employees to have at least 2-3 CDG's out and ready to go when the song ends, you should have already double checked the Number and the Title of the song against the CDG you pulled out...so there is No dead air! if it is wrong fix it, don't skip them or call them up to fix it, unless you just can't figure it out!
You should have already pushed eject at the song end Before you do anything else and as you are congratulating the previous singer, the next CDG is going into the player, you call up the next singer as it is queing up and starting ..if need be, you can always pause it to wait for the singer, I USAULLY don't as I use it to get them off their Butts! Push play, Tops this should take 15 seconds, unless you have to wait for the next singer, ...then put the CDG you just used away, and pull out the next one.

My rotation works like this: My shows all start at 9:30. Song
books are out at 9:15 and not before, so I am not harrased while setting up the equipment.
I will usually have 6-10 slips turned in by the time I actually start the show. I will mark the first one with a BIG 1 and go from there.
I put New singers at the END of the line untill 11pm. AFTER 11pm all new singers are introduced into the line from wherever we are in line at 11pm, and every other song after that, (NEW singer...Old singer)untill you reach the first new singer you put in at 11. By then most have sung 1 time if not twice anyways.

By this time the rotation is about 45 minutes to an hour or more, depending on the night. I always tell the NEW singers that get there after 11, that it will be an Hour before they get to sing again!
So now I have 2 1/2 hrs left. I will play like this with 20-30 singers untill 1am...Then at 1am I put ALL the BOOKS away and put the slips away. I keep out My Business cards and Broshures AND THAT IS IT ..NO MORE REQUESTS!! This gives me a chance to take care of the people that have spent the better part of the night with ME, and Bar hoppers that show up at 1am or later DO NOT GET TO SIGN UP AT ALL...EVER!

I did this because of the fact that I did at one time always let new people sing no matter what time it was, untill 1:30 But even some of my regulars would take advantage of it and barhop, then show up at 1 or 1:30 and expect me to let them sing!
It made me crazy!! SO, I took drastic measures and devised this way of operating my rotations. I have been doing this now for 8 years and I have not had to many people complain, unless they were already drunk, ...well I didn't want them to spit all over my Mic anyways, so it didn't matter if they got too upset.

One thing you have to understand though, is that MY shows deal with 70% of my clientele being College crowd, NOT middle age or older $6.50 a drink sippers, these are $5.00 pitcher Drown night types. This works for me because of the people I deal with.

It take concentration and a little planning but once you do it it comes as second nature and you have to pay attention to your audience as to who is who. This is a really BIG part of the show. People love it when they walk up to hand you a slip and you address them by name BEFORE they give you their slip.
"He remembered me! I must have made a good impression"

I don't bump people up in line ever ...LOL even post it as such on my website if you care to look. OR take Bribes to do it. I turned down 50 bucks just last Friday!

Rickyokie :t

[SteveWalker]

Well done Rickyokie. Sounds like you have a very well planned format for your karaoke show. Do the singers like alternating after 11 PM? You know at least half of my singers bring their own CDG's to the show and their very good singers. Do you have alot of singers that bring CDG's?

Keep up the good work,
Steve

[Rickyokie]

Hi steve,
I don't seem to have any problem with my regulars in dealing with my rotation, however the newcomers or visitors from out of town don't get it, and sometimes get frustrated if not pissed off. Unfortunately for them, I don't back down. I look at it this way...I have a bar already full of people, if they don't like the way I run my show, I certainly don't need the grief of argueing with them, so I compile a list of ALL 50+ of the karaoke shows in the area and I give it to them and tell them which ones I think they would prefer.

I am not afraid of compitition. I have been in Tulsa for 8 years now and never lost 1 show to someone stabbing me in the back. Not that they haven't tried, they try to undercut me like any of them do...and it's easy to undercut me too, I get $250 on 3 nights a week and $200 on the other 7 nights, but they still get laughed out of the Bar. The people I work for know that my Company is a sure thing and I am extremely dependable.

As far as people bringing their own cdg's, yes it happens but not that much. I have 7,000 songs(NOT counting Dup's)in my BIG system and 4,000 in my Second system. I have most of the songs people want and they are not the cheap CDG's either. I also buy Top Hits Rock, Country, and Pop every month to keep up with the Top 10.

So when people actually do bring their own, it is usually because the like their version of the song, and that is fine with me...Because if they want me to use their CDG then it is less wear and tear on Mine, especially since It seems like I'm the only one NOT backing up My CDG's.

I have a page in my song books that I take out every month.
I make my own Books. they are on an Ibico Comb Binding system, it makes it easy to take out pages and put in updates.
It is a page where People can write down the songs that they want me to buy. I do my best to get them to make them happy...it keeps people coming back when they know you care about what they want!!

I buy New Music every month...2 Country, 2 Pop, 2 Rock and
2 70's-80's and I'll throw in an Oldies, Elvis or the Beatles now and again. Usually work out to be about 100 New songs a month.

It's a write off, what the Hell Make them Happy!

Rickyokie

[Norman]

Greetings to all:

4 Shows – Usually 30-40 Singers weekends and 20-30 Singers weekdays.

Rotations are very important, true. I manage my Rotations this way, which seems to work, so far.

I establish the 1st Rotation with no more than 15 singers. 2nd Rotation…new singers are inserted…one current, then, one new…if I get slammed, I insert two new singers after one current singer. Ultimate slam…I establish a complete row of 6-7 new singers, then continue with current list of singers...alternating rows of current and new until all new singers have been inserted. At any rate, all singers that were inserted (late arrivals) during the 2nd Rotation are, then, removed to the END of the original established 1st Rotation singers.

True, the first 15 singers will have to wait longer for their 2nd song during the 2nd Rotation, but, if they hold out, they will be rewarded with a 3rd song quicker, during the 3rd Rotation. All new singers arriving during the 3rd Rotation will be inserted with singers that were new during the 2nd Rotation, of course, depending on time and the actual point that I am in during that 3rd Rotation. If I am near the end…say within 5-7 singers of finishing the 3rd Rotation…all new singers will go at the end of all established singers.

1st Rotation - “EarlyBirds” - Singers arriving early will have preference.
2nd Rotation - “Late Arrivals” - Singers who arrive after the first Rotation get a song fairly quickly by having been inserted, but will lose this courtesy during the 3rd Rotation out of fairness to the “Early Birds.” Also, these singers will then understand what it feels like to have singers inserted among them to accommodate the “Bar Hoppers.”
3rd Rotation or Final Rotation - “Bar Hoppers” - Singers arriving 1 1\2 hours, or so, before closing will, absolutely, have to wait on the 1st Rotation singers and, in fact, may not get to sing.

Singers who do not support the bar (drinking water) will not have preference at any time.
Singers, who arrive late due to work related issues, will get preference.

KJ’s, you know your regulars.
:c

[Wayne White]

The recent post here caused me to read this thread. Somehow I missed it in the past. In our town, other KJs start shows but, we usually end up getting called to do the shows once the initial crowd dies down. Our attendance gets better with time instead of dying off because customers are fed up with the KJ letting his friends sing all night. I don't solicite clubs that have a KJ already working there, but many people kill their own shows by inconsistency in the rotation, wanting to be 'the show' & favoritism. I read people in this thread saying they don't play favorites, but, then saying it depends on who it is that comes in late & what their reason is (just got off work etc.). If they don't get in, oh well. When you don't come into a club until an hour prior to closing, the reason doesn't matter. Unless a lot of singers go home early, you are probably not going to sing.

The front page of my books, has my advertisement on it, as well as where we are every night (10 regular weekly gigs currently).

The back of this page contains stuff like how to act at Karaoke shows. Turning in requests (we prefer Sing 1 - Bring 1). I don't think anything works better. You should just have to put the request on the bottom of the next rotation. We also explain how our rotation works. Everyone knows! We get asked to move people up & no excuse is good enough. I have read people who have implied it's only Karaoke, don't take it so serious. I don't know where all of you work, but, when the booze is flowing. it is serious. I tell people to rest assured that I am not moving anybody ahead of them either.

Sorry to be so long winded here. How we work a rotation is the same no matter which KJ is working, my phone # is on the books & the request slips. When I start getting calls from more than an occasional disgruntled singer, I discuss rotation with the KJ and they usually remember the night & we probably had 40+ singers & everyone was upset because they didn't get to sing as much as they thought they should - there is no fix for this - we have tried and everything we tried caused more problems that the original problem.

At the start of the night, we will add singers until it looks like it is going to get busy, no magic #, but we never start a new round if we never get down to less than 8 singers left in the rotation. In some clubs, we have had 1 round for the entire night. When we do start the second round, new singers that turn in requests are inserted in the round a minimum of 8 singers down, then we alternate new/old through the existing singers & everyone else ends up at the end of the first round singers. When we get to a third round, we do the same thing. This would put no more than 1 person between you and the person you sang after in the previous round.

We play a couple of dance tunes between rounds later in the evening (if we get requests for it). We do not play music between songs. Prior to Hoster (which is fantastic), we always used the DKK 5 disk carasel players. We also usually announce the 'on deck' singer so they can be making their way up (if they are paying attention). We usually have the microphone in the next singers hand before the outro of the previous song is finished. If not, we start their song anyway. If they didn't hear their name, hearing their song should get their attention. We re-start it when they get the microphone, if necessary.

Wayne White

[marklwood]

As a non-dj I'd still like to thank admin for this forum(to which I'll likely not have much reason to post to.) It never hurts to gain a perspective on the problems facing others. Will be a mostly silent participant.

Thanks again admin. It is interesting

George

I was just going back to read some of the older posts.

mostly silent????????:):):)